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Rob D. Willis: [00:00:00] Welcome to superpowered with me, Rob d Willis. Each week I talk to leaders about their superpowers, how they got them, and how you can get a little bit of them as well. If you are new here, please make sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

Today I'm talking to Josh Wheeler about getting meaningful media attention through broadcast pr. This is a skill which of course helps your brand reach new audiences, and Josh has a unique ability to find that sweet spot between broadcasters needs brand objectives and audience interests. And I'm excited to talk to Josh about this because I think that the principles behind what Josh does are applicable in all sorts of situations.

So I can't wait to get stuck in. Josh, welcome to the show.

Josh Wheeler: Thanks so much, Rob. Cheers for having me.

Rob D. Willis: For the listeners who don't know you, could you just tell us a bit about who you are and what you do?

Josh Wheeler: I'm Josh Wheeler. I run a company called Be Broadcast. We are a [00:01:00] specific PR agency. I often describe us as a, a horizontal specialist, so you, you get agencies that will work in things like auto or consumer or et cetera, et cetera. I talk about us as a horizontal specialist. We build a deep understanding of the media that we work within.

So tv, radio, a bit of online, where it crosses over a bit of social, where it crosses over. And then we apply that to the specific sectors. And I know we'll talk a bit about rules and things like that. But ultimately for us there are, there are kind of iron rods that we stick to that mean that for us we can quite quickly, I. up on a specific area or a specific subjects and apply that to the broadcast landscape and win ultimately.

Rob D. Willis: I think you've, you've given me the perfect jumping in point. What are the iron rods?

Josh Wheeler: So the, the, the key thing is [00:02:00] when it comes to any story that you are trying to get media attention on, whether it, regardless of the, the media type, is that it's newsworthy. I think a lot of people, I I, I don't wanna be controversial here. I think a lot of people worry about the newness of news, and I think that's where we perhaps look at things slightly differently.

So I'm not necessarily hugely focused on stories that are brand new, exclusive, oh my God, this is gonna be the biggest revolutionary thing in the world. A lot of stories. Are told and told and told again, the best stories are often told and told and told again, but for us it's about how do you tell that story? A message that you want to get across from a a, a company or an organization really has to play into the audience. the media that we are dealing with, and this is where we, we kind of come into our rules, the media that we are [00:03:00] with, they're, they're laser focused on their audience. They're not laser focused on a business or brand. think I. Very often brands look through their own lens themselves, and it makes sense. You know, you, you work on something, you're passionate about something, you've created this amazing thing. You are really, really close to it. And then the media don't cover it because they don't think it's interesting enough.

And suddenly you're kind of like, well, what, what's happened here? And ultimately what I think many people miss is that looking at your thing through the lens of the audience. Now I often talk about Mrs. Megans from Wiggin. And, and the reason I talk about her is I want people to actually think about this thing, this story, this product, this. Message this health, public health emergency announcement. We've all gone through those things. What does that mean to Mrs. Gins [00:04:00] from Wiggin? How is that going to impact her life? What are the things that are challenging her? What are the things that are keeping her up at night? And once you can start to unpick that, then you can start to play over, well, where does this come into it? Does it help her when she's at work? Does it help her when she's shopping? Does it help her engage with her kids? All of these kind of life point challenges. And then you can start to actually slot in the the answer. And the answer is another bit. That's a key rule. when it comes to a corporate story, answer. you, you are very often fulfilling that, that solving the problem, the issue, we're gonna, you know, make your dreams come true with this chocolate bar.

Rob D. Willis: Mm-hmm.

Josh Wheeler: ultimately what you have to remember is that this is different to printing online. In the world of broadcast, you're gonna be talking for say, seven odd minutes.

What are you talking about once you've talked about said chocolate [00:05:00] bar. So you have to frame something that is really, it's the, the question. And the best way to do that is to look at what that question is. So, you know, a moment ago I talked about Mrs. Megan's, what's keeping her up at night? What are the challenges that she faces? Chocolate bar is probably a bad example, but you know, where does, where is the chocolate causing an issue in Mrs. Megan's life? And then suddenly you're starting to piece together and you're being analytical about your audience and that is what you then present to broadcast.

Rob D. Willis: Just to help me get, like, see this from, you know, beginning to end. Have you got maybe an example of a company coming to you and I would love it if you could include that. What was the trigger for them coming to you and how do they put forward what they want from you? Do they say, we are launching this chocolate bar next week and we want to be on all the news?

Josh Wheeler: Hmm.

Rob D. Willis: is that kind of how they're coming or do they come with a story already?

Josh Wheeler: they will, they very often come to us with a goal. [00:06:00] This is what we want to achieve. This is, this is how we do it. And actually in many cases, they've done things like this before. You know, these are professionals that are working in the space. They're, you know, they, they know how media works to, to an extent. They're not necessarily well versed in broadcast all of the time. I think one, one really good example I would give a recent example is. We worked with a, a, a fantastic charity in the uk called Epilepsy Action. And we worked with them on a, with a view to shining a light on what life is like for people living with epilepsy in the uk. I, we, I won't go into a huge amount of detail on the story and the activity, but, but to begin with, where that started was we are looking at, at giving insights on what life is like for people living with epilepsy in the uk. And my challenge back to that was, [00:07:00] ultimately the issue that those people are facing is not themselves. ultimately. Not really. It's not really the condition itself, it's more a case of what is happening around them. So it's how people react when you have a seizure in public. Do they react good or do they react badly? And we essentially flipped the story and looked at what people do when somebody has a seizure in public, when they need support, when they need help. And ultimately we found through our data that these people were not treated very kindly. You know, lots of people for, for various different reasons, were fearful, concerned about safety and all of these things. But it gave us an opportunity to highlight that actually there is something that we really need to do.

There is something that we as a nation, as a world need to think about. Luckily, [00:08:00] action had a whole piece of activity, which talked quite simply about the four things you need to know when somebody has a seizure. So we just reframed it from essentially a bit of an inward piece. You know, this is what you need to do to make it outward and make us

Rob D. Willis: Mm-hmm.

Josh Wheeler: what would I do in that situation?

And that worked really effectively in broadcast, in terms of, you know, making us all sit up and think, actually my behavior, if I haven't done anything wrong in this situation, my behavior, what, what would I do and why do I need to learn about these, this acronym that is going to make sure that we do things better in the future.

Rob D. Willis: That's, that's cool. And I would call that the sort of master level of of getting into broadcast. But let's just say that someone came to you and they've got a small business or maybe a big business, but either way, they don't have the budget to employ a company like yours and they're just like, Josh, I'd really love your opinion.

We're gonna be launching Product X and I really want to get [00:09:00] some media exposure. Have you got any tips? Like, how would you go about it?

Josh Wheeler: Okay. So there are a couple of things at play with that. The first thing is, what do you want to be known for? You simply saying we are here is isn't, isn't newsworthy in it in its own right.

It might get into trade, press, fantastic. But if you want to break into different types of areas, you need to give them a little bit more. What problem are you solving for Mrs. Megans? So again, just think about her. She's at home in Wiggin and she's got 1,000,001 things to, to sort out what problem do you solve in her life? Then start to extrapolate that out into the broader entire population. So what are some of the generalizations that you can make about, average working people that are gonna come home from work, put the news on, and, and kind of skim through. You need to figure out what it is that you are adding value into that, into that area. I. The next thing is to start [00:10:00] to think about the, the world that you live in. So for instance, we are recording this today. There's an awful lot of challenges and issues when it comes to things like British Steel. So how does the world that you exist, if you are in say, the construction industry or the trade industry, how is that having an impact?

And actually, can you start to offer an opinion or can you act as to some extent a case study of. You know, someone, an organization being impacted could be positively, it could be negatively being impacted by global or nationwide events that are hurting or having a positive effect. You know, lots and lots of data sources.

Things like the ONS put out data regularly and we know that broadcasts use that data to inform a lot of the strategy that they, they're kind of putting out for content. So figures. We've had clients talk about the impact of rising egg prices on their [00:11:00] bakery. You know, there are lots of different ways to, I don't wanna use this pun, but there are lots of different ways to crack an egg. And so you can, you can start to pick things apart. The other bit is to start thinking about the data that you sit on. Data in, as we all know, in this world, is incredibly valuable. I'm not asking you to sell anyone's data, don't do that. Look at the data that you have from customers, from stakeholders, and look at how you can effectively use some of that data anonymously to help paint a picture of your story. So if customers are buying a certain type of product, what is the reason for that? Is there a spark? Is there a, a kind of a moment that's happened in time? All of these little kind of hints and tips are kind of tactical activations. The, the bit above is how are you impacting? And if you keep that question front and center, that will keep you on the right path.

The other bit I would [00:12:00] give you, and I don't wanna do self-promotion, but I will I'm based in the north of England and have been for the last 10 years, o over that time I have gone off for, you know, client meetings, pitches with brands that do not have the budgets that, that, that lots of London agencies would, would ask for. And it always frustrated me because I would sit there and talk to these brands that have an amazing story to tell, but is kind of and, and held back by budget. We created something called little Book. So be broadcast little book. And effectively it is a a list of. Voices, experts, people with something to say that goes out to media each week. Along with a, a run through of what the main events that are going to kind of drive the news agenda that week on a daily basis. So we issue out the week before to the people that are on there, and then we issue it to media, and media come back and say, great, we'd love [00:13:00] to speak to that person. an ad hoc pricing, so there aren't the kind of, the big fees, et cetera.

And it gives smaller brands the opportunity to jump in and, and have a moment in time and for charities. It's all completely free. There, there are

Rob D. Willis: Mm-hmm.

Josh Wheeler: fees at all with that.

Rob D. Willis: Let's go back to that B2B example. Maybe there's a real example. You've, you, you can, can draw from here. They probably are quite used to speaking in the FT type or the LinkedIn type audiences where they're talking about what they do in a very skillful way. They can talk with the clients they've helped, but that doesn't really build a kind of solid brand.

It doesn't show who they are. So how do you help them find the stories that are gonna resonate in the more playful, like the sun type outlet?

Josh Wheeler: That is, it's it's really, it's coming down to having a real nose for news. [00:14:00] And think back to when I was a junior, junior's such a terrible world.

Rob D. Willis: Mm-hmm.

Josh Wheeler: it, it doesn't really replicate what it is I'm trying to say. But, you know, the first few years of, of your career and I, I remember thinking and feeling like, I need to, I need to, you know, get on and I need to be promoted and I need to do, and I wish I could go back in time and just sort of slap me around the face and say, just chill out because actually this is where you are learning the most important stuff. That, that, that real picking up a paper and going through it and scrolling through stories and things that you find, I. as sin,

Rob D. Willis: Mm-hmm.

Josh Wheeler: If you can force yourself to read a trade publication of an industry that you are not interested in solidly you can get on in this industry genuinely. I used to I would go out on a night out.

I kid you not, I would go on a night out and I'd have my bag with me and I would get out and I used to work for [00:15:00] a, a client that was in the world of inks, pigments inks. Inks and pigments, not my natural habitat. And I would sit and read it and I would read these bios of people, I think, But the reason for that was it was the first account that I was given to cut my teeth on it, and I was able to really get under the skin of this world and start applying things. That is the skill that is where it comes from to be able to go to. A newspaper website or pick up a paper and skim through and start to, to almost see how does each story jump out and talk to your client. And then to be able to guide your client in, okay, this is how I think we should engage on this.

This is what I think we should say to get this across, both from a, making it a media and newsworthy perspective.

Rob D. Willis: Mm-hmm.

Josh Wheeler: is what the impact will be. So from a a B2B we work with a global cybersecurity firm. The name [00:16:00] wouldn't ring true with anybody in the sense that it's, it's something that's behind the scenes. But here in the uk not particularly active in in kind of broadcast spaces as such, we've spent a lot of time, particularly in the regional space, engaging and talking to local stations about why cybersecurity matters. And we, in an instance like that, I'm not knocking any, any outlet, but in an instance like that, you know, the drive time show on BBC radio, Sussex cybersecurity is not necessarily a big, big subject there.

Right. But we've been able to kind of highlight and encourage over time why this is really important, why this subject that's just broken in the agenda over here an impact on Mrs. Megans

Rob D. Willis: Mm-hmm.

Josh Wheeler: she does need to be aware of the things that are happening. So, so we've taken things that are challenging us as a, as a society.

So we've taken [00:17:00] issues like hospitals being hacked. We've taken train stations facing various different challenges and we've been able to put spokespeople forward. We've been able to engage quickly, get out there and understand and offer kind of arm round shoulder to explain what's happening, and how we might be able to protect from it in the future. All with a view of actually we are conveying that really this is something that, that, that cybersecurity firms should be in charge of. We need to have more engagement from all different levels of society to ensure that this is, this is front and center. That comes from being able to see what's happening in the news agenda and kind of activate quickly and have that kind of confidence in your ability to be able to do it.

Rob D. Willis: It feels to me like almost a sort of a skill that we intuitively can have when we're in a group of people. It's seeing this is the conversation that we're having and this is how I can add my voice to it, my [00:18:00] perspective to it.

Josh Wheeler: It is, it's, it's, it's a perfect analogy. It's a perfect analogy. Broadcast in its truest sense is a conversation. So we, part of the, the stuff that we do when it comes to media training is is we have to try and break the mold of question, answer, question, answer in an interview. Because actually great radio is great conversation. Great conversation is not actually that fluid. You know, you'll get pauses, you'll get people jumping in over each other and you'll get someone excited to give an answer. And isn't actually, in my opinion, a bad thing. I think that actually conveys. You know clarity and passion depending on, you know, the level you are, obviously you don't want a CEO of a major bank doing that, but if you are somebody that works on the front lines of cybersecurity, you know, you are, you are not a CEO.

And I think very often we, we lose sight as prs of, of making sure that, you know, everyone's kind of suit and tie and,

Rob D. Willis: Mm-hmm.

Josh Wheeler: and delivering in the, the way that we [00:19:00] want. I think you've hit the nail on the head. What can you add to that conversation? Is, is exactly it. And as, as, as long as what you can add isn't just here, then you've got something, you've got a story to tell.

What you need to do with that story is think about, well, how is that going to add and make that person at home's day better? Worse because you might be alerting them to something that, that they don't know about. You know, all of the different emotions that, that, that we go through are absolutely valid.

O on, on our website, we've actually got a spinning wheel, an emotion wheel and we encourage clients to go on there just to, just to play. Basically, you put in the thing that you are you are doing. So it could be that you're announcing a new Stanley Cup and you want to know, you want to kind of think about it and you hit send and it will literally spin around and it will give you 20 questions about that emotion. And [00:20:00] you can do it so your heart's content, but it will force you to think about how is that going to make me feel, make the audience feel a certain way about your product or your announcement. It's so important. That bit, you know, wouldn't just put in an advert if you've seen the latest. Black Mirror series, you wouldn't just throw in an advert, you would talk about things, you would talk about how it's going to impact and, and things better for you, and that that's the skill.

Rob D. Willis: Let's move to some rapid fire. Have you got a favorite book about communication or media?

Josh Wheeler: It's called PR Stack it's by wads Steven Waddington. And it's an amazing, if anyone hasn't seen it, it's an amazing digest of tools that you can use within the world of PR and comms. It's a little, it's a little bit old now, but he's done different versions.

He's just done one about ai.

Rob D. Willis: Mm-hmm.

Josh Wheeler: But it is for someone [00:21:00] like me that just likes to play perfect. That that in terms of comms, I think is the best thing. 'cause it allows you to just do all different, different stuff. So to the PR stack by Steven Wallington,

Rob D. Willis: A podcast that you've discovered recently?

Josh Wheeler: can I be really honest?

Rob D. Willis: Mm-hmm.

Josh Wheeler: So when it comes to podcasts I in and out of lots of different ones. I am interested in like on a personal level, I love lots of like true crime.

Rob D. Willis: Mm-hmm.

Josh Wheeler: and there's a podcast called coffee and Crime. And it's basically a guy from New Zealand that investigates real life cases and he has a coffee business.

So the whole setup is, it's in his coffee shop. That that is it. It's, it's like pure trashy, but his voice is very soothing. I don't know if he writes it via chat, GPT, it sounds a bit like he is chat, but he, he was around pre-chat GPT, so, so those, I, I think me, I, I love comedy and people's [00:22:00] stories, so I'm much more into like those kind of real life stuff rather than like, I'm gonna talk to you about business.

That, that kind of thing.

Rob D. Willis: That leads to another question I love asking people. Have you got a story, so not a business book or nothing like no manual, but a story that inspires you?

Josh Wheeler: There's a show on Netflix that the, the word inspire is thrown about probably too much. I think, you know, being interested is, is, is enough. I grew up, when I was at uni there was a show on, and it was called I think, million Dollar Listing. And it was basically these like different estate agents in New York selling ostentatious properties.

Rob D. Willis: Mm-hmm.

Josh Wheeler: Grim in a way. But actually one of the people from that, his name is Ryan Serhant, has gone on to create his own his own business, his own organization, a huge business in New York, and there's a show called owning Manhattan. And it [00:23:00] sounds like one of those trashy. You know, where it's like estate agents fighting with each other and like real estate.

It's not that, doesn't seem like it's that, and actually it's very much the story of that business. And what I really like about it, it tries to make caricatures of people. What I really like about it is how Ryan has gone from being this kind of like pseudo reality tv, a bit sort of nf to actually being a really significant expert in his field, but doing it in his way. So he, he, if you ever see it, it's, it's kind of unique. He, he doesn't, he doesn't operate the business that you'd necessarily expect him to operate. He looks at people specifically and there was one person that was working in Brooklyn and she really wanted to do X, Y, and z. And he's finding, you know, problems to solutions.

And I just, I, I think that he's a really interesting character and I follow him on Instagram and I just like his, I like the cut of his [00:24:00] jib. It's kind of like no one has the exact answer, but you can try lots of different things. And that, that to me feels like that. And the fact that he, he has his own Netflix show about his business, I just think is, he's great

Rob D. Willis: Now we move to the listener challenge, and in this part of the pod, we give listeners a ritual or an exercise that they can try out in the next week to get a bit of your superpower. Josh, what have you got for us? I.

Josh Wheeler: So I have a bit of a challenge, and you can do this about whether you're thinking this. As a yourself or whether you are thinking this as a, a business of yours. So if you think about Mrs. Megans or e even if you are not there yet, if you want to think about Mrs. Megans, but she's a c-suite exec right

Rob D. Willis: Mm-hmm.

Josh Wheeler: your sector, what are the three things that you want Mrs.

Megans to feel about you? Right? What are they [00:25:00] feel, and if that's about an organization, you want her to feel that you would be the right organization to take on her needs when it comes to X, Y, and Z, or

Rob D. Willis: Mm-hmm.

Josh Wheeler: be the right shop to buy X, y, and Z from. So what are those three things and write those down. Then what I want you to do think of seven questions. The first one being quite open. Tell me about yourself. The final one being, where can I get more information? Where can I go? What are the seven questions that Mrs. Megans could ask you to get to know? You get, get your kind of the cut of your jib, who you are and what you do in those in kind of mid questions as well.

Then write down what the answers are. That is the beginnings of your PR plan. Or if you're doing it on a personal level, it might be the beginnings of your dating profile, because ultimately what you're starting to [00:26:00] do is flip the turning point. So you started with what do you want people to know about you or

Rob D. Willis: Mm-hmm.

Josh Wheeler: you? Actually, you can still do that, but you can frame it in a way of what are the questions and then how are you going to. Answer them back. And that is probably the starting point for any PR activity, whether you're targeting broadcast or beyond. How do you get people to understand where you are coming from?

And that, I think is the, the skill I'd leave you with.

Rob D. Willis: Awesome. I'm probably gonna do that myself actually, Josh. Thank you. Josh, where can people go to find out more about you?

Josh Wheeler: You can head over to b.co uk. On there. We've got a whole heap of stuff we, we blog pretty much daily about changes in the industry. And then if, if that's too much, we pretty much wrap everything up into a, a big bulletin at the end of each month about what the big things you need to know are. But ultimately, yeah, you can head over to be broadcast, see the type of work that we do. And if you have any questions, just, just ping us. Even if you, talked about things like budget. That's, [00:27:00] that's fine. We are, we are interested in kind of that are interested in the world of broadcast.

Rob D. Willis: Awesome stuff. I'll be sure to link to that. Josh. Thank you very much.

Josh Wheeler: you.