Please note : This transcript is automatically generated and provided for your convenience.

Luke Tobin [00:00:01]:
It's amazing how many C level professionals just get lost in the weeds still and don't actually know how to deploy on that. So focus on the things that you can have an impact on and try and remove the noise of the things that you can't.

Rob D. Willis [00:00:15]:
Welcome to the Super Powered podcast, where we hear the unique stories of modern leaders. I'm your host, Rob D. Willis and today I am talking to Luke Tobin, an entrepreneur with not one, not two, but three successful exits. Luke has this uncanny ability to step into an industry, find opportunities and act on them, and he's going to share some frameworks to help you do the same. This is actually the first episode of our new format and we have some amazing guests from inside and outside the business world coming up, so be sure to subscribe to make sure you don't miss them. But without further ado, let's dive in and discover how to see the world through the eyes of an opportunity spotter. Enjoy. Hi Luke, welcome to the show.

Rob D. Willis [00:01:01]:
It's really cool to have you here, man.

Luke Tobin [00:01:03]:
Awesome, thanks for having me. Good to see you.

Rob D. Willis [00:01:05]:
I've been following you on LinkedIn for a while and you share some really, really cool entrepreneurial advice that I love. And I'll also say I think you have the most well behaved dog I've ever seen online.

Luke Tobin [00:01:18]:
She's well trained, she's very well trained.

Rob D. Willis [00:01:20]:
But for listeners who don't know you, could you just introduce yourself what you're up to and what like your day to day looks like?

Luke Tobin [00:01:27]:
Yeah, of course. I am currently co CEO of Cadastra, which is a performance marketing agency. Global performance marketing agency. I'm also running a firm and investment firm called Tobin Capital where we take kind of minority stakes and investments in other businesses and help them to scale. I'm a prolific and active investor and advisor for different businesses as well. And I think very, very much entrepreneurial by spirit.

Rob D. Willis [00:01:55]:
Yeah, I've noticed that looking through your journey and also your content as well. And you wrote on your profile, it's my mission to share the good, the bad and the ugly of entrepreneurship. Now, maybe this is more about me than about anything else, but I would like to hear about the ugly.

Luke Tobin [00:02:13]:
Yes.

Rob D. Willis [00:02:15]:
Is there maybe a moment you could share which really shows listeners what the kind of challenges, those really difficult moments that you had to get through?

Luke Tobin [00:02:25]:
I have to be honest, like for me, my entrepreneurial journey, I've kind of been nothing but hard work. It's been complete graph from start to finish. So lots of late nights, lots of thankless tasks, lots of stress, lots of grey hair. But don't get me wrong, you know, at the end of that there has been, you know, I've had three successful exits. So for a long time I think when I was younger I was chasing cash and having some money and having security. So sometimes, you know, what you realise when you have cash is that that can be a bit kind of thankless and soulless in the end. But actually that was what I wanted, that's what I chased. So I would be doing 14, 15 hour days every day and just, you know, sweating myself.

Luke Tobin [00:03:02]:
So it has been really hard graft. I think probably the biggest lesson for me has been to find value and purpose outside of just financial goals. And I think that's, that's an easy thing to say when you've reached some sort of exit, but, but it's definitely something that I've taken a lot of time to consider and think on since those successful exits.

Rob D. Willis [00:03:23]:
It's the journey of lots of Hollywood entrepreneurs, isn't it? Chasing grafting at the beginning, chasing the money, but then realising actually there's something more. And I'm wondering where did that transition, that moment come from you, where you realise, okay, what is all of this for? Was there something particular going on with the business or with yourself? What made you think I need more than just money for this?

Luke Tobin [00:03:50]:
To be honest, I probably got to a point in the agency journey, the recent, my most recent business that I sold in late 2022 where. 2020, 2021 after Covid and all the rest. I was very burnt out, to be honest, and was really suffering from a, a period of not exercising, not training. You know, my mental health was suffering. So that was a real realisation to me that like you've got to love and have passion for what you do. Don't just keep doing the same thing, expecting different outcomes. So you know, I started to, to really focus on my own energy and, and looking after myself again. And off the back of that period then of kind of self reflection, we actually ended up finding a buyer and selling the company and kind of, you know, things have changed dramatically since then.

Luke Tobin [00:04:33]:
So yeah, I think that was probably an inflection point actually reaching burnout.

Rob D. Willis [00:04:38]:
A lot of people found this sort of difficulty around 2020, 21 because suddenly their work came into their homes. They lost that human connection and at least I have found this. And the reason I have an office even as a freelancer is you kind of never at work or not at work. When you work from home, you're just sort of Always doing stuff and there's always something to do.

Luke Tobin [00:05:01]:
You feel the pressure, don't you, almost, to kind of. If you sat doing well, it's hard to actually sit doing nothing because we're all so connected these days and always on. And if you are freelancing and your work is with you constantly and it can be anywhere, there's beauty in that. But there's also a bit of a chalice. Right. Because you are trapped by it and you'll always find something else to do. So, yeah, you have to be very disciplined to step away from that.

Rob D. Willis [00:05:25]:
And it's particularly hard, I think, for. And ambitious people call them type A personalities, particularly in a company which I read in 2019 you were the fastest growing marketing agency in the UK.

Luke Tobin [00:05:39]:
Yeah, yeah.

Rob D. Willis [00:05:40]:
And so it's off the back of that really exciting period and you're thinking, how do we keep this going by any method? And of course, if you don't look after yourself, then it's not sustainable in the long term.

Luke Tobin [00:05:52]:
Exactly, yeah.

Rob D. Willis [00:05:53]:
Reversing just a little bit to the moment before, around the time that you were growing extremely fast. So 2019, could you tell listeners a little bit about what are the challenges of having a company that's growing that quickly? What sort of things were happening in the office? What did you have to overcome?

Luke Tobin [00:06:13]:
Yeah, it's. I always talk about it as like a seesaw effect. So when you're growing at that level, typically your sales engine is obviously firing. It's going well, I think our kind of peak. We were bringing in between eight and 10 new clients every month. But we were. And typical the way that an agency is resourced, you'll often resource and leave a small gap, or often you don't leave a gap, you might just sweat the ass, the team a little bit further to do a little bit more. So we were finding that we were having to hire two or three new people a month and it was very, very difficult for us to embed them culturally, properly.

Luke Tobin [00:06:48]:
We probably didn't have the processes, to be honest, to be able to do a great job of embedding them. So from a team point of view, I think it was a very difficult period. And you've got the seesaw sales like this, the operational piece comes like this and you've got to try and scramble to fix the operations, try and rebalance it. If you do that too much, the sales fall down. So it was a constant battle of trying to get that right. But I think I was fortunate in the sense that our model was a little Bit different to the competition in the sense that the services we were selling was exactly the same. It's SEO, it's pay per click, it's whatever it is. But we were going in and physically spending time in clients, businesses for at least a couple of days and actually really integrating into their culture and their systems.

Luke Tobin [00:07:28]:
And I think that still is quite rare. You'll find that a lot of agencies won't do that. They'll do an onboarding workshop or something. But actually physically spending that time made. Made all the difference. So that helped us retain clients. And by retaining clients, we had this period between 2018 and 2020 where we were able to really work on building a better operational function for the team, which then carried us further. But it was a.

Luke Tobin [00:07:52]:
It was a constant battle and a constant challenge.

Rob D. Willis [00:07:54]:
Yeah, it sounds it, but I love the personal connection that you forged with these people. I remember I read, talking about the beginnings of digital ethos, that you created this agency after some personal bad experiences with marketing agencies.

Luke Tobin [00:08:13]:
Exactly.

Rob D. Willis [00:08:13]:
Is that the thing you were addressing?

Luke Tobin [00:08:15]:
It's exactly what I was addressing. So I being quite entrepreneurial, I've operated in four or five different industries, I've had businesses in three industries and I've worked with marketing agencies across all of them. And I've had some good experiences, but lots of bad experiences. And I think most clients would probably have the same feedback. And I think the reason for that is there's this kind of no man's land that sits between the client and the agency relationship where there's often mistrust. The client needs to make, the agency needs to make money and it kind of causes this disconnect. And I think you've got all different levels of personnel then working on the account. One person might own it and they might then lead from an account management sector, they might leave the business and all that knowledge goes out.

Luke Tobin [00:08:58]:
It's very difficult for agencies to get this piece right. But I did always think, well, actually coming at it from a client point of view, there's got to be a way of bridging that gap and actually building much more of a kind of holistic, more deeply a deep understanding of like, what that client is trying to do. So our way of addressing that was to actually physically spend time on site with the client. So understand who you go to for different functions, different needs, go for lunch with them, go for dinner with them, like become, build a relationship so that when stuff does hit the fan, which is inevitable in marketing, you know, not everything's always swimming and up and up and up. They're going to give you time to work through it. And I think where most agencies fall down is the churn rate of clients is 30%, 30 to 40% per year on average. You've got to win a lot of clients just to keep replacing that lost revenue. And for us, you know, the first three years our retention rate was 1 95% or something.

Luke Tobin [00:09:54]:
So we just weren't losing many clients. And that, that just allows you to do so much more. I always say, you know, new revenue fixes all problems. And it really does. You know, you can hire better people, you can put better processes in, you can get the best tooling, can do all the stuff that you need to do.

Rob D. Willis [00:10:07]:
And if you're not onboarding clients, you're saving time and you can spend your resources on actually doing the work for them. So you're saving costs as well, I guess with that.

Luke Tobin [00:10:16]:
Yes, you are. Yeah, yeah.

Rob D. Willis [00:10:17]:
I'm sensing though that this sort of level of personal care was maybe not traditional in the marketing sphere. So did you ever sense that in the early days people were maybe a bit apprehensive about this? When you're trying to create this more hands on approach, was it always positive responses or did people need to be sort of guided to a point where they find that normal?

Luke Tobin [00:10:40]:
Definitely guided. And it changed quite a lot with COVID Right. And moving to a remote model, it was very hard to keep our same integrated approach. So for those first few years of the business it was, I think it was refreshing for clients actually, especially they'd had a bad experience. It was quite an easy thing to say, well actually we want to come on site for a few days, bigger clients, we might be there for a week. And actually we had a period of time where some of our staff would go and spend a day, a month, 12, 24 months in, in these businesses. So no, it was, it was fairly well received, I would say. There was a couple of, maybe smaller ones where they were worried about what you would be doing in that time and whether it was going to bog them down for two or three days, which is not the idea of it.

Luke Tobin [00:11:18]:
But after Covid, the model shifted quite a lot. And I think, you know, we still do it now for, you know, the larger clients. And that's why having these kind of tier one, tier two type clients helps because you often have the budgets that allow for it. But I think why most agencies don't do this is it's just hard to scale and it's hard to make it profitable. Right if you've got a team member sat in one client's business, you can't have them working across 10 accounts. So it is difficult to scale. And I think, you know, it's about upfront investment, which again I think it's a smart investment. More agency should do it, but they have to probably run at a bit of a loss on their retainer for the first couple of months to make it pay in the long run.

Rob D. Willis [00:11:55]:
And there is that wisdom. I think it's Reid Hoffman who said that in order to make a truly scalable product, you have to start by doing things which are not scalable.

Luke Tobin [00:12:05]:
Yes.

Rob D. Willis [00:12:05]:
Because I imagine you must have learned so much about your clients when you went in and started spending time with them, just hearing them speak to each other, seeing how they work. Could you tell me about some of the early realisations maybe you had with the first few clients when you were actually spending time with them?

Luke Tobin [00:12:23]:
Yeah, I mean I've made some good friendships actually with some of the clients over time as well, you know, work aside. But I think probably the thing that I realised really quickly is all different shapes and sizes of client and just business in general often don't have their stuff together. Right. They don't have it figured out. They might have like a rough idea of what this kind of long term vision would be, but actually day to day and granularly of like how to get there. Most companies don't have a proper roadmap for that. So the kind of area or the sweet spot, and this is actually something that I do now through the advisory that I actually really found that I love was helping businesses create like actual short, mid and long term actionable goals. And it sounds a bit cheesy but like it's amazing how many C level professionals just get lost in the weeds still and don't actually know how to deploy on that.

Luke Tobin [00:13:13]:
So that was really interesting. And from a marketing perspective, because marketing evolves at such a rapid clip, you know, they need that third party support. Even the teams that have got good marketing people and professionals internally, unless they are really prolific with like ongoing knowledge training, things like that, they get stuck on their knowledge base as well. And that's where agencies add a lot of additional value. So yeah, I saw loads of loads of opportunity and it was a lot of learnings for me and I realised that I love coaching and working with business leaders. Basically that was, that was the big takeaway for me.

Rob D. Willis [00:13:49]:
Yeah. So it sounds like you learned a lot about your customers, but also learned a lot about what you loved yourself through talking to clients. I remember you also saying that graduating to the top tier clients, the biggest, the most valuable companies, that does bring some challenges. And I'm wondering if you could tell me a little bit about that moment where you were switching to a larger, bigger client. I wouldn't say a better client, but let's say a bigger client. That and what kind of differences you noticed and how you had to approach them.

Luke Tobin [00:14:21]:
Definitely not always better. I think it always comes down to people at the end of the day, right? So people service. So yeah, the individual is good. It can be any shape or size. But for Digital Ethos, we went through this kind of micro SME to kind of SME to mid tier. A few outlier kind of large clients like jd Sports and NHS and people like that. But we then had this kind of weird identity crisis when we merged with Cadastra and we actually, the Digital Ethos brand was, was taken away in 2023. We became this global entity.

Luke Tobin [00:14:53]:
Now Cadastra in other markets is Tier one only. So it's big, you know, Tier one businesses, Unilever and people like that. But our heritage was very different. So we've had to kind of pivot. And that was interesting because you got to retrain the team. Some of dealing with those clients, some of the aspects of expectation from those clients is very different to an SME or a mid tier. So it's been a journey and one that I would say we're still on, but I think we are getting to a pretty good place now of understanding what and where we need to put our focus. But yeah, I think if you are an agency owner or business trying to make that pivot, doing it organically is almost probably the best way because you've got to go through the trials and tribulations to actually figure out what you need.

Luke Tobin [00:15:34]:
We've been supported by the fact that we've had Cadastra's operational knowledge after 25 years to come in and help us. But I don't think there is really a fast track to it, you know.

Rob D. Willis [00:15:43]:
And I love hearing about the trials and tribulations. So can you. Have you got maybe a moment or an example of something you tried, which always used to work, but then with this bigger client just didn't.

Luke Tobin [00:15:58]:
I think probably the hardest thing with the bigger Tier one clients is you're dealing with a team in this huge entity. So actually you're never dealing with the owners anymore. You're not dealing with the board quite often. You're dealing with like a Small marketing component within a large entity. So that in itself comes with a huge difference to what we've been doing previously where we were actually dealing hands on with the leadership teams and we were helping to kind of almost shape the future of the business narrative. The larger tier ones come in with, well, with a pretty strong objective of what they want to achieve for the budget that they've been given. And it's much more, I would almost call it more project based. Whereas the other type of work we were doing before, we were always able to build more longevity because it was like, well, okay, once we do this, we'll then do that and we'll keep moving.

Luke Tobin [00:16:47]:
As your goals change, our goals will change. Whereas these larger entities, they come in, they say, right, we've got a couple of hundred grand to spend. This is what we need to spend it on. How are you going to do it? And it's more of a direction than a kind of, you know, a process that you can, you can really add a lot of additional ideas to.

Rob D. Willis [00:17:04]:
Yeah, I've noticed this as well. Working with different client sizes and definitely the difference between working with leadership and working with a team.

Luke Tobin [00:17:13]:
Yeah.

Rob D. Willis [00:17:14]:
There's a book on sales. I cannot remember the name, but they make the distinction on above the line and below the line buyers. Below the line has a budget, they've got a job that they need to do with that budget. And above the line buyer you might call an economic buyer. So there's someone who sees, oh, I have an opportunity, I am going to invest in that opportunity. And perhaps this was the change you were seeing. People are not seeing it always as an investment whereby if it works, you just do more. This is a project where I've got to spend this money on that thing as exactly.

Luke Tobin [00:17:50]:
That is exactly what it is. And if they don't spend it, they lose it. And I mean, don't get me wrong, it's not always the case and we are able to ideate and we are able to add additional value, but it is much more prescribed, I would say.

Rob D. Willis [00:18:01]:
Yeah. And I imagine also working with public institutions is going to be even more. Because it's not like you're speaking to the Prime Minister.

Luke Tobin [00:18:11]:
No, no, no.

Rob D. Willis [00:18:12]:
And as you are, I don't know.

Luke Tobin [00:18:13]:
Yes. No, no, no, no, that would be great. But no, not yet.

Rob D. Willis [00:18:16]:
Not yet. Yeah. All to come. Now, you've mentioned your entrepreneurial spirit and I noticed you've said you've had three exits, but by my count you've actually started more businesses than that. It feels like whenever you do something, you see an opportunity and create a business around it. So I'm wondering, where does that, that bias for action come from?

Luke Tobin [00:18:39]:
Yeah, yeah, it's funny because you hit the nail on the head there. I often people, when I speak to people and you get kind of personality profiled, they'll call me a visionary and I'll say, look, I have a lot of ideas, but actually the ones that have been most successful for me have been kind of when I've been in an environment and I've gone, oh, actually I think I can do this a bit better or I can take the learnings from what I've seen here and actually I can go and now do it for myself. So the first business was a alcohol import business. I also had like a Baja unit that was popping up at festivals and events and was all over the country. Late teens, early 20s, loved it, fantastic first business to operate. I ended up getting a good contract in place and show my age now with a company called IML Concerts and they had like Beverly, Beverly Night, Lamar, Sugar Bays, people like that on the contract that had value. So I did one season, had a second season signed in and the main competitor had much sexier, nicer bar units than I did. I was kind of popping up with gazebos and these kind of makeshift bar units and everyone else was starting to move towards much nicer looking stuff.

Luke Tobin [00:19:41]:
Offered me a bit of cash to exit. So that was the first one. And I think that just gave me an impetus for, and an understanding that actually, you know what you can, if you build something that's solid, that makes money and actually have fun while you're doing it, someone will want it. And actually I kind of saw that model. So then I have had a few businesses in between, as you mentioned. I've actually had eight companies now still working on the ape, which is Tobin Capital. Three exits and then a few failed and, you know, I started all sorts. I had a little web design company that didn't work mainly because I wasn't that interested in it or passionate for it.

Luke Tobin [00:20:15]:
I had a. I was part owner in a modelling agency, believe it or not, in my early 20s and that completely flunked. Very difficult space to make any money. And my second, second exit came from an experience day business as an E commerce website. Actually started offline. So I had sales teams selling in shopping centres, high football locations, events in the uk, but also in Australia. So I spent three years in Oz, built a team over there and then came back and set up in the uk, you know, You've probably seen those guys trying to sell paintballing or car racing or hot air balloons, whatever it might be in shopping centres. Off the back of that, launched a website that did pretty well.

Luke Tobin [00:20:52]:
Again, did something quite smart on the contract side with that. I, I did a deal with Silverstone at the time that the industry was selling a lot of single car track days and then on the day the track days would try and upsell additional cars. So let's say you got a Lamborghini package, they try and sell you a Ferrari or Porsche on the day and that was how they made their additional money. They didn't make much on the ticket value. What I realised was there was demand to sell like a bigger package up front and then maybe they could still bundle in more. So Silverstone, like it's not going to work, it's going to take away are upsell. But you know, if you sell it at £300 or 295, we'll give it a go for six months. They sold like hotcakes.

Luke Tobin [00:21:32]:
It worked really well. They were still happy with the margin. That business is so tight on margins. Most of the ticket sales you make are running at a loss, but the activation rate is only about between one third and sometimes, sometimes two thirds depending on the product. So you've always got 30 or 35% not activating. That's where the money is. So on those big ticket Items, in every 10 that you're selling, you know you're getting a grand or so, two grand in your pocket for people not activating. So that was the, that was the focus that was really attractive to one of the major competitors.

Luke Tobin [00:22:07]:
A big household name which I can't mention really under NDA, but they had one of the largest experience day sites or websites at the time and they, they bought the business for six figures and that was my first, I would say, proper exit.

Rob D. Willis [00:22:20]:
That's really exciting and really inspiring to hear actually. And a kind of common thread I'm hearing is your skill in getting people to try stuff out because you need a person to give it a punt. I'm not talking about customers, I'm talking about the business to say, okay, we'll do it this way, we'll try this new thing that you're doing. What do you think is important when you're encouraging people to take a risk like that?

Luke Tobin [00:22:43]:
I think you need to be able to show them what's in it for them and obviously build that rapport. I think with trying anything that's against or slightly different to the status quo. There's got to be obvious output and purpose to it. So, yeah, I think, I think people are always open as well to trying new things. And it's not like I don't think with any of these businesses that I've had, I've, I've ever completely revolutionised anything. I've just taken a slightly different spin. So it's actually an easier sell as well. You're not asking people to completely rethink a model or whatever.

Luke Tobin [00:23:17]:
It's more of an, okay, well, let's, you know, this, this I think will work because of this reason and, you know, let's try it.

Rob D. Willis [00:23:24]:
You say it's not revolutionary, but these small tweaks are very hard for a lot of people.

Luke Tobin [00:23:28]:
They are.

Rob D. Willis [00:23:29]:
I've noticed one of the big challenges that people have, and I see it a lot in the sales, the partnerships, those kind of spaces where you need to get people to do stuff, is they really struggle to see things from the other person's point of view because they have their own targets. They essentially, if you were to ask, what is your customer's problem, they would just say the opposite of their solution. And I'm wondering, how do you get inside the minds of someone? Is it intuitive for you or is there a method that you go through to understand?

Luke Tobin [00:24:00]:
I think it's slightly different whether it's clients, staff or what it is, but I think it's about. I think generally I'm innately personable and also I think I have quite high eq. So, like, I think if you're emotionally in tune and you can understand people's drivers and what motivates or inspires others, then actually you can, you can get the best from them. I don't think historically I've always been the best manager because I think for a long time, being quite entrepreneurial, I kind of. I would have an idea and I expect people just to get it and if they didn't get it quickly, I'd be kind of frustrated and then I'd be like, well, actually, that probably on me, because you're not training them properly, not whatever. So over time I've become much more aware of that and I think it's something that we all, as human beings should practise. And I don't think it comes actually to many people, as you say, but, like, try to always, whether it's in an argument, a business opportunity and negotiation. Sales taught me a lot about this.

Luke Tobin [00:24:54]:
You know, if you can be good at sales, all of that comes down to is empathy. Relationship mimicking and understanding what the drivers and needs and challenges are of the other person sat across from you. It's as simple as that. And I think that's, that's really why it's worked for me.

Rob D. Willis [00:25:08]:
Yeah, and I think that is, is very, very key and a great type of, great place to practise is at home, I think, because that's where you're emotionally the most charged and the least inclined to be logical when talking to someone.

Luke Tobin [00:25:21]:
I think. Exactly, exactly.

Rob D. Willis [00:25:23]:
Thinking about your entrepreneurial journey, let's say someone has an idea because you've tried so many things out. Some things have worked, some things have not. Let's say I have a particular idea, I see a little gap or a way I can tweak something. How would you now, with all the experience that you have, break down and understand whether it is actually a good idea?

Luke Tobin [00:25:46]:
I mean, I have, have a few methods that I've kind of polished over time and I've, you know, I've always got ideas that I'm trying to cycling through whether it's looking at people's businesses to invest in or whether it's my own, my own companies. And the way that I approach it now is to really think about first thing, are you solving a problem for somebody else and are you able to add value or intrinsic value through solving that problem? I think if the answer is yes to that, then you should go deeper and you should start having a look at. And if the answer is no, by the way, I'd probably leave it. But if it's yes, I think you can go deeper into kind of product market fit competition, like what's out there, what's been done. And I think having good competitors is actually always, it's always actually excited me because you can kind of jump start your business based on what you see them doing. You just need to try and find an angle to come in and see stand out. It's a noisy space out there and I think for me, if you've got a product market fit, you can see that there's been some, some opportunity in the market already and that maybe the timing's right. Then I think it's just about trying to put your spin on it.

Luke Tobin [00:26:50]:
And from a personality perspect, from a. I always tried to pull on my own personal experiences. So talked about the agency and that kind of no man's land. A lot of that was because as a client I was frustrated. So I tried to think as the client think, well, if I was a client, why would I what Would I buy and why would I buy it and how would that solve my problem? So again, it's looking at it from that other perspective. Always try and think as the customer and that will solve and give you a lot of the information that you need.

Rob D. Willis [00:27:17]:
Yeah. And this reminds me of something someone said online about the most powerful brands. They always go something along the lines of, I'm the only X that does Y. So you are in a space and the competitors, but you're the only one that does it this particular way. If that particular thing brings value, they're going to love it. Go back right to the beginnings. I did notice that you are a. You went to drama school.

Luke Tobin [00:27:43]:
Yeah, I did, yeah.

Rob D. Willis [00:27:46]:
Is there something you have taken from that experience which you still find useful today?

Luke Tobin [00:27:54]:
I think the idea of standing on stage and acting now terrifies me, but I don't mind standing up and doing public speaking. I think it probably gave me enough confidence to be able to do things like this, to be able to hold myself well in sales. I think the one thing that my early career and even to today, I think has been apparent in every role is my ability to sell and commercialise something and actually to go and sell it. And I think as a business founder, that is the key. Right. In order to get business, you get so many great, you know, technically minded people, but they have no idea how to sell a product that they could build or they have no idea. So they need like a good co founder to do that piece. I haven't always needed somebody else around me because I can go and sell it and I might need people to help deliver the service or the product, but I think being able to sell it.

Luke Tobin [00:28:40]:
So I think drama school definitely gave me the foundations for that. Definitely.

Rob D. Willis [00:28:46]:
You think simply just performing, essentially having to be able to stand up on stage and deliver.

Luke Tobin [00:28:51]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, improvisation, those types of techniques, like just silly things from kind of vocal warmups before you go on stage to like all of that stuff I still use today. So, you know, a lot of it, I've still used the exact same vocal warmup before I go and do a public speaking or keynote as I did when I was 18 years of age at drama school.

Rob D. Willis [00:29:15]:
Yeah, they are, they are good. I might actually put some videos, exercises in with the show notes because got to warm up that diaphragm, make sure it.

Luke Tobin [00:29:22]:
Yes, you do.

Rob D. Willis [00:29:23]:
It's something good.

Luke Tobin [00:29:24]:
Yeah.

Rob D. Willis [00:29:25]:
If. I mean, it's been a really interesting career to hear about if you were to turn that whole story into a kind of a business book about your journey. What do you think you'd call it?

Luke Tobin [00:29:36]:
Oh, I've got, I've got a few book titles in my head. I'd probably go for something like the momentum paradox or success paradox, something like that. So. And the reason being, I think you need a lot of laser sighted momentum to make something work. What I did early in my career and with the failed businesses was try to be one foot in, one foot out, not always committed, trying to try too many things at once. What I found with my three exits is those three businesses that worked for me are the ones that at the time I wasn't distracted with anything else, I was just full momentum. I always think like the founder is kind of like at the middle of the eye of the storm, right? And the storm gathers around it and in that storm you're grabbing onto people, you're bringing in your tribe, you're bringing in your early staff members and whatever and you need all of those people to get caught up in the energy with you. I think if you try to separate out into too many storms at once, they don't get the power that they need to, to really ignite.

Luke Tobin [00:30:36]:
So yeah, something like that.

Rob D. Willis [00:30:38]:
I've got to say, looking at my own career, the things again that worked were when I had a clear goal and I actually put all that momentum towards something. But when you have a bit of an entrepreneurial mind, I get a bit overexcited sometimes and I'm like, oh, that could be cool, let's try and do that. And people get a bit lost in what you're really offering. Going to have a few, just a few very quick questions, rapid fire. So don't feel you need to go full in depth on this but just a little tips for people. The first is one human skill you think is undervalued in your industry.

Luke Tobin [00:31:14]:
I think I'll probably lean back on that kind of empathy, emotional intelligence piece. I feel like, especially in the marketing industry, I mean now there's a lot of really good disciplined people. But I think having more understanding of what drives and motivates other people would actually make more people successful.

Rob D. Willis [00:31:31]:
What's a daily habit you can't go without?

Luke Tobin [00:31:34]:
For me I try to exercise almost not every day, so daily is probably a bit off. At least five times a week I find it like clears my headspace. But definitely every single day, even at the weekend, believe it or not, I set a to do list of like what I'm doing that that day. So. So it's a bit easy A lot of people find them useful. Some that I coach hate it. But for me, like, I like having some sort of soft goal for the day, even if it's not a major goal, and then feeling like I've achieved it.

Rob D. Willis [00:32:04]:
Are we talking like a daily highlight or do you. Is it a long list? Is it one or two things?

Luke Tobin [00:32:08]:
Normally it's short list. If it's long, I'll. I just will get. You won't use it. Two or three things, basically. And I try to, from a business perspective, if I'm making two or three big or important decisions per week, I feel like that's. That's good enough as well. And then the other stuff, day to day, you, you kind of work with.

Rob D. Willis [00:32:24]:
Yeah. I mean, Bezos even said he wants people in his team to make a maximum of two or three important decisions a year.

Luke Tobin [00:32:30]:
Yeah, exactly.

Rob D. Willis [00:32:31]:
Two or three a week is really good. This one I love. Is there a non business book that unexpectedly taught you something about business and your work?

Luke Tobin [00:32:42]:
That's a great question. A non business book that taught me something about business or work. Yeah, there was a. There was a book I read a few years ago I need to try. I think it was like Pitch Without Pitching Manifesto or something like that. And it's not Blair something or other Blair something? Yeah, yeah. I mean it is. It's probably a little bit grey because it is probably business focused.

Luke Tobin [00:33:06]:
Apologies for that. But it made me really think about the value in how you commercialise or how you sell or how you present a product and actually not undervaluing your own time. So the whole book's about basically putting value on any time that you spend, even in like the negotiation stages, proposal stages, building pitch decks, whatever. Whereas for a long time, I think especially in this industry or most industries I've been in, people will chuck so many hours at things that actually end up coming to nothing. So it's really fabulous in that. So again, probably not the best answer, but for that book, definitely. Yeah.

Rob D. Willis [00:33:41]:
I mean, it's a great book. So people will get value from reading that, I am sure.

Luke Tobin [00:33:45]:
Definitely.

Rob D. Willis [00:33:46]:
Last one. A question that you like to ask yourself to get a fresh perspective on a problem.

Luke Tobin [00:33:53]:
I think this comes down to, is it something that I can. I can control? I also think, is it. I would think to myself, how would. Yeah. How would somebody else approach this? I always try and look at it from both sides, but I always. I think with problems, you know, problems to one person might not be a problem to somebody else. So having cross perspective is always important. So yeah, that's probably what I would do.

Rob D. Willis [00:34:18]:
Now. Those are great questions. And this leads on to this next part of the show where we like to give listeners a hack, a routine or something that they can do to bring a little bit of extra superpower to their life. And I was wondering if there's maybe a habit or a routine or something you would recommend someone do in a particular situation that you. That listeners can try out.

Luke Tobin [00:34:44]:
Yeah, definitely. I had a really interesting conversation of the day with one of my employees, actually, who came to me and this is something I've been doing for years now. Somebody else mentioned it to me, an advisor, years ago. But if you're stressed, and we all are at times, or you're carrying some weight and you've got a few problems in front of you, the method I find that helps me is to write them all down and then cross out the bits that are not in your direct control.

Rob D. Willis [00:35:10]:
Yeah.

Luke Tobin [00:35:11]:
And the colleague that I did this with the other day, There was about 10 items on there. She crossed out basically nine. There was one that she could control. So 10% of the stuff that she was carrying she could actually have an impact on. I said, go away and fix that first and then let's see, let's then deal with the others, you know, tomorrow she came back and dealt what was in with what was in her control. And the other stuff by then, by the time that a day had passed, had kind of half of them have fallen away anyway, because they weren't, they weren't something that was in her control. So I think focus on the things that you can have an impact on and try and remove the noise of the things that you can't because there's no point carrying weight for stuff that you can't control.

Rob D. Willis [00:35:51]:
Absolutely. What a great skill for people to try out and a thing which I think will bring a lot of relief in those stressful moments. Luke, where can people learn more about you?

Luke Tobin [00:36:02]:
Social media, most platforms. I am Luke T Tobin as a handle. LinkedIn is probably the place where I update the most day to day. I've got a good following on there. I've also got a blog, Entrepreneurial Edge Blog, and my website, Tobin capital.co.uk awesome.

Rob D. Willis [00:36:21]:
I'll be linking to all of those in the show notes. It's been a pleasure talking to you today, Luke. Thank you.

Luke Tobin [00:36:26]:
Thanks, Rob. Cheers. Thank you.

Rob D. Willis [00:36:29]:
That was Luke Tobin sharing his insights on spotting opportunities and building successful businesses. I love that exercise about writing down what's actually within your control. It is such a simple way to cut through the noise. You'll find that exercise and all the links we mentioned in the show notes, just click through. Wherever you're listening, please take a moment to rate and review us. It helps us reach more people who could benefit from these conversations. And if you know someone who's building a business or looking to make a positive change, share this episode with them. Sometimes all it takes is that one new perspective to spark real progress.

Rob D. Willis [00:37:08]:
That's goodbye from me. Rob D. Willis thanks for listening and I'll see you next week for another episode of the Super Powered Podcast.