Please note : This transcript is automatically generated and provided for your convenience.

[00:00:00]

Lindsey Frances: All of your joy and happiness is in today. We don't want to feel vulnerable. We don't want to feel unsafe, we don't want to feel wrong. But in order to improve, we do have to change things.


Rob D. Willis: Welcome to superpowered with me, Rob d Willis. Each week I talk to people who've mastered their skills in the most demanding situations. They share what actually works, so you don't have to learn everything the hard way. If you are new here, please make sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

We have amazing guests every week, and today I'm talking to Lindsay Francis about the science of. Integrating mental and physical health for optimal performance. many of us struggle with burnout and stress while trying to turn up and perform at our best every single day. And Lindsay actually has a fascinating approach using cutting edge technology to help people and organizations [00:01:00] thrive as emotional billionaires. I can't wait to hear what she's got

in store for us. Lindsay,

welcome to the show.

Lindsey Frances: Thank you so much for having. Me today, Rob.

Rob D. Willis: Thank you for being here and for listeners who are meeting you for the first time, could you just tell us a little bit about who you are and how you help people?

Lindsey Frances: Of course I can. And thank you very much for the beautiful introduction. I am an ISF internationally accredited nephrologist and also a member of the British Psychological Society. And what I do, Rob, is work with entrepreneurs, leaders, and C-suite executives as well as founders to help them optimize their performance.

Using consciousness.

Rob D. Willis: The. Word you used at the beginning, sophrology. seems to be very much at the core of your approach, but it's one that I think is less popular in the UK where I'm from, or at least less well known For the listeners who haven't heard about Sophrology yet, could you just give like a, a rough pracy of [00:02:00] like what it is how it bridges that gap between mental and physical health?

Lindsey Frances: Absolutely. I would love to, and I'm on a personal quest to shareology globally outside of. The French and Spanish speaking worlds serology has been around as a method since the 1950s, and essentially it is the study of consciousness in harmony, very much rooted in the behavior of the nervous system and how that affects our physical.

I. Mental and emotional wellbeing. And what happened with Sophrology Rob is in the 1950s there was an amazing neuropsychiatrist in Spain who came up with a method having treated people with electroshock therapy. And his thoughts were, there must be a better way of treating these poor people. So he made it his life's work to travel across the world and bring the best of the east to the west.

So nephrology in its purest form, is a blended method of both visualization. Meditation, breathing, and gentle body movement that allows you [00:03:00] to access your mind and your body in harmony and become aware of your consciousness, ultimately providing wellbeing and addressing a number of symptoms that you might be suffering from.

Rob D. Willis: visualization, breath work, these are all things which are really entering the mainstream at the moment. For you, what drew you to Sophrology specifically? How did you come to that methodology? Well.

Lindsey Frances: Well, interestingly, Rob, I am a bit of a data geek, and I started understanding that our mind and our body are very connected. And I came across wearable health trackers a number of years ago, so we're talking about products like. Whoop and Aura and Morpheus, and I started thinking, I wonder how this relates to psychology.

And I then came across the method of Sophrology, which of course allows us to directly impact those wearable health trackers and the data because we're accessing our consciousness through the body. So I came [00:04:00] across the Nephrology Academy. It's a UK based training school, and I retrained as a nephrologist.

Speaking English based between France and the uk, and I now run a private practice. I see clients personally in a retreat setting and also online and in corporate settings.

Rob D. Willis: And you've created this conscious change method with the six Ps, pauses, present power, people, purpose and plans. Could you just walk us through that? Basically, how does that system work and fit together?

Lindsey Frances: sophrology is ama an amazing method in itself, but I found through working with clients that they really needed a. Framework so they could see their progress and also holding them accountable for what they were actually doing in each stage of the journey. So I always work with clients when it's one-to-one over 90 days and they learn the Sophrology method.

But under the six pillars of the conscious change method, and you've [00:05:00] already alluded to the fact that we start with a pause. We then learn to become very present. We think about our personal power, then we think about the people around us and the people before us, and we then go into purpose and planning.

What's most important in serology is that we don't start doing any planning at all, because what we are interested in serology is asking How do you feel and how do you want to feel? Not what do you want. So you'll notice there that there's a very big difference between feeling and planning. Feeling and doing.

So we are really starting from the inside out. So if somebody comes to me, see me and says, Lindsay, I really want to make 10 million pounds. I say, well, how do you actually want to feel? And that's of course the most difficult question of all.

Rob D. Willis: And can we just stick with that actually, because this thing about planning, I'm, I'm wondering what, what, what are people coming to you with? Are they usually coming to you with plans or what are they generally feeling? What are the symptoms that [00:06:00] drive them to your work?

Lindsey Frances: People turn up in my practice normally saying I just don't feel quite right. And of course the power referral is huge in the work that I do. So very often people are coming to see me because they're feeling like they're not performing optimally, whether that's physically, they might be. Doing marathon training whilst holding down a really demanding job.

They might be a semi-pro athlete. They might just be aging and can't quite work out why they're not sleeping as well and not feeling as great as they did maybe five or 10 years ago. I do have a lot of men and women in my clinic and I'm really excited to say that Sophrology is an amazing method. For men as well.

'cause it's very, very disciplined, it's very structured and there's no messing around. We're not asking you to go back into the past so much. We are really saying, okay, how are you feeling? How would you like to feel? And then of course, how do we get there? So it's a really beautiful way of accessing that consciousness.

And of course then when you layer in the wearable health tracker [00:07:00] and use the power of ai, you can really begin to see what's going on in somebody's physical, mental, and emotional state.

Rob D. Willis: You sent me a couple of episodes of your podcast where you spoke to some of the people you'd actually helped, and I'm wondering if you'd feel comfortable sharing maybe an example of a, a journey that someone went through, they were going through, what pressures they had, specifically what they thought they needed. And then how you guided them to a point where they were feeling a lot better.

Lindsey Frances: I'd love to share a story of one of my clients and they were a part, they are a partner in a very big law firm. I won't say where, but what had happened is they were beginning to think, actually, I hate my job. I dunno what I'm doing. I dunno how much longer I can continue to do this.

But of course, as you know, in the legal system, the longer you stay. The more you get paid. So it's a very, very seductive method of keeping you [00:08:00] there and really making sure that you are then rewarded at the end of your career. So what happened is they came to see me and sort of shared this. Disquiet really that was going on within them.

I'm not really enjoying this. I'm finding it incredibly difficult, and I'm beginning to think that this is not really where I want to be. Of course, the question then is, and I start with the pause, is, can you be still enough to work out how you actually feel now? And then can we think about how you really want to feel?

Then we scaffold around that. Is it really the job? Is it really the lifestyle? Or have you just lost the joy in the day today? So what happened in this particular case, as is in with so many people, as we really made sure that we came back to being present in the moment, because you know as well as I do, Rob, I.

All of your joy and happiness is in today. And if we don't find it in today, we're sort of hanging on for this tomorrow. That never really comes. It's an illusion that when I get that job, house, car, handbag relationship, [00:09:00] everything will be fine. And of course, we know that wherever you go. There you are.

You take your problems with you. So when we learn to find joy, pleasure, and deep satisfaction in our daily activities, and it might be as simple as a cup of tea, then you can begin to really feel that satisfaction in life. And I checked in with this client recently and said, how's it going? And they said, absolutely fantastic.

Rob D. Willis: I love my life. I'm really enjoying every day. The job is the job. And it was an incredibly transformational story.

Do you feel that this pause is. In a way, maybe the hardest bit for people to get over. 'cause I can imagine anyone who's going to go to someone who will help them use a tracker to look at their things like. Heart rate variability and the things we're gonna talk about later, anyone who's looking at that is probably very ambitious and therefore finds it hard to be in the present 'cause they're trying to think about the thing they're trying to achieve. Do, do you [00:10:00] feel that that's maybe an accurate assessment of the kind of people who are drawn to this and why the pause is so important?

Lindsey Frances: Yes. I sort of laugh when we're talking about the tracker because of course. The tracker is really the way to get the door open. What we don't really want to do is become obsessed with this piece of fabric around our wrist or ring on our finger or chest strap, where we keep you looking at this thing to see how we feel.

That's not what it's about. It's about leveraging the data to turn on the dashboard for how you are conscious, and then changing your thoughts, feelings, and emotions, and then words, actions, and behaviors to improve. I. The way you're feeling. So

Rob D. Willis: Mm-hmm.

Lindsey Frances: little bit of a, a backwards way if you like. You know, you could be saying, well, let's just all go on a meditation retreat for 10 days in silence and access our consciousness that way.

But clearly a busy executive or a C-suite isn't going to go and do that. They probably want the data first, and then we can work through what's actually going [00:11:00] on. But to answer your question, Rob, of course, nobody wants to slow down because we're totally conditioned to think the faster we go and the more we do, the happier and more successful we will become.

And the reverse is true.

Rob D. Willis: Yeah, no, I could, I could definitely resonates what you are, what you're saying there. And also what you're saying earlier about data, the whoop, the aing that gets people through the door. It's true of, I think, so many things because people. Don't always know what they need to solve the problem that they have.

They've not always realized what the problem actually is. They may think, oh, I just don't have enough energy. How do I make, give myself enough energy to do even more? But that's not the problem as as you have to show them.

Lindsey Frances: And that's a really nuanced conversation because we are trained to be consumers. We are conditioned, subconsciously to consume. And I was in a meeting recently and somebody just said, well, it would be far better Lindsay if I could just click and buy this sense of satisfaction on [00:12:00] Amazon. I said, well, I'm sorry you can't.

You do have to work at it. And of course, the biggest resistance to what I do is people saying I simply don't have time.

Rob D. Willis: So it sounds like there's a massive mindset shift people need to take. How have you found the most effective way to lead people through that mindset shift?

Lindsey Frances: The data. Actually hard data in the app on your phone is a great tool

Rob D. Willis: Mm-hmm.

Lindsey Frances: people see that their heart rate variability is very low, and then they see the research papers that have been being produced since the 1970s. And they see the links with HRV and sleep, HRV and dementia, HRV and depression, inflammation, inflammatory diseases, heart issues.

They begin to wake up and think, actually, I do want to do something about this. So it's a great way. To start the conversation, but the problem with all of these devices, Rob, of course, is it's [00:13:00] another thing to buy. There's an algorithm involved, and somebody might be in the green because simply they've shifted their HRV two points, but they're already at such a low scale.

I would be saying to 'em as a professional, you know, you could do a lot better than this. So it it's the personal touch, it's the education that's really, really important and understanding how your body is working. And, and for anyone that doesn't know, I keep saying H-I-V-H-I-V is your heart rate variability.

It's the gap between your heartbeats that signals the effectiveness of your nervous system moving from fight or flight. To rest and digest. And if we are operating optimally, we will have a very high heart rate variability where we have a high heart rate, bu bum bu, because we've just gone out and gone for a run.

And then when we come back home, we're relaxed. Our heart is beating nice and slowly and the, and the range is very, very big.

Rob D. Willis: Yeah, I'd love to talk about that in a second. But I would to, to stick with this [00:14:00] educational aspect because there is still, I didn't think the data does it on its own. feel that your connection with your or clients Will be the thing which eventually leads them to take action and actually change things. I'm wondering how do you approach the education part so it's not just, oh, look at the pretty dashboard that you have. It is, okay, let's change how I'm living right now.

Lindsey Frances: I feel like my purpose in life, Rob, is to wake people up to what's really going on inside their bodies and the fact that their mind and their body is very closely connected together. So the message isn't that pretty sometimes when you say to somebody.

This data doesn't look great, and I think you might be struggling with X, Y, and Z. Of course, my job is to be alongside people and I work with people almost in daily contact sometimes because I'm watching your data and ask new questions. The other way we can answer this question of course, is [00:15:00] ego. Our ego is designed to protect us.

So when the green comes up, we think, oh yeah, it's fine. And maybe it goes a bit yellow and we think, well, you know, if we're watching the dashboard, it's okay. My job is to say. Is that true data or are you just telling yourself that's okay because when we actually drill down, we can see that it's not really okay.

You might be, you know, data might be falling. My data's been on an absolute slide over the last few months, but when somebody's watching it, you're accountable, you're encouraged, you are in community. You are able to make the changes because somebody else is alongside you, and that's absolutely essential.

Rob D. Willis: Yeah, I can see how accountability would've a huge effect. Have you got again. As much as you're comfortable sharing an example of some resistance or someone who just wasn't really getting it, how you helped them see what was really going on.

Lindsey Frances: Quite a lot of my clients. Come to see me [00:16:00] pay for their sessions and then start suggesting that the data might be wrong. So just remember, Rob, the people I'm working with are very successful. Normally they are pretty much at the top of the game, and most of my clients are mid forties or over, or they're extremely successful, so they don't really want to hear that.

They might not be getting it right.

Lindsay, I don't believe in this data. It must be wrong. This device is rubbish. I don't believe it. And I say, well the research is that this data is very, very accurate. It's been tested, you know, over years and years, and I'm also assuming that you've paid to come and see me because there is a problem you would like to fix.

And by now you probably think I might know. More than you. So shall we just step back a bit and see where, where that's going? And of course, it's ego. We don't want to feel vulnerable. We don't want to feel unsafe, we don't want to feel wrong. But in order to improve, we do have [00:17:00] to change things. And the reason the method is called the conscious change method is because we have to become conscious or aware first.

Before we can change anything. And I know myself, I spent years and years trying to change things by simply working harder and it didn't end terribly well.

Rob D. Willis: I had love to, to, to dig into that a little bit later. But let's

Lindsey Frances: I.

Rob D. Willis: with the conscious change method for the minute. And I'm wondering, we've spoken about Pause a lot. Do you feel that that. Is the most difficult element for people to confront or, or generally, where do the, the obstacles come?

The blockers come in that, in the whole thing.

Lindsey Frances: I think being, being in the pause. Phase and then being present is the most difficult part. When we get into the power phase, people feel quite motivated because we are visualizing past successes. We are thinking about future success and visualization. We are doing the more [00:18:00] interesting part where people begin to really feel in their true gifted and talented selves.

The pausing, the stopping, the being present is really challenging in a world that's designed to steal our attention and keep us busy from dawn till dusk.

Rob D. Willis: I think e everyone with with an iPhone can relate to that.

Lindsey Frances: Yes.

Rob D. Willis: could just never turn off, can you,

Lindsey Frances: You can't escape, Rob. You simply can't escape anymore, which is why boundaries work is so important, self-worth, and it that inner dialogue where the little gremlin inside your head that says, work harder, work harder. You are rubbish. Has another counterpart that says, hang on a minute. We don't listen to that voice every day and we, and we stop.

Rob D. Willis: We're gonna take a slight tangent because I work with storytelling, and it sounds like some of what you need to do is to change the story that people are telling themselves in their own heads because. You're trying to switch off the gremlins, the, the thing that makes people just think work, work, work, and it'll all be better. [00:19:00] also what you said about power, and I imagine people as well or about thinking about those specific moments where you felt good on visualizing and so on. Could you just tell us a little bit about that, how you are tapping into experiences and, and how people can use them?

Lindsey Frances: Yes. We've all done things in the past that are great. We've all had experiences that have made us feel good, and a lot of the work that I do is about remembering how you felt and where you were and what might have been happening, and using that to springboard into a more positive future. Because of the way that we have developed evolutionary world, we're we're prey animals.

We are very, very alert to threat. So we don't sit around celebrating our success as much as we do. Looking for something that might kill us, and that celebration of success is without being a narcissist, is very, very important to build our sense of self-worth and our [00:20:00] purpose. And that's a really, really key part to the piece of work that I do with people around.

Being in their power. What, what natural gifts and talents and uniqueness have they got? Where have they used that in the past successfully? What have they really, really enjoyed? And then when we move forward and we are looking to find out how we want to feel. We can think, well, I know that this feeling is something I really, really enjoy.

So for example, I might really enjoy the challenge and the excitement emotion. But I know people who are introverted would say, Lindsay, I definitely don't enjoy that emotion. But we are very, very unique in the way that we are designed and we are all designed for a unique purpose here on Earth. And when we begin to look at who am I, then of course we can start moving into what is my purpose and how do I wish to plan for that?

Rob D. Willis: Yeah, because you, you need to find the examples and then you draw the meaning out of them. you got any really good questions or exercises or rituals that you either [00:21:00] help people with or that you do yourself to call up those positive moments, which have a lot of meaning for people?

Lindsey Frances: I think I might describe a visualization rod that people could use when they've got a moment of quiet, and of course most people can visualize. So that's imagining that you can imagine yourself. And what I would invite people to do when they're listening is in a moment just to. Perhaps imagine that they're somewhere where they feel really relaxed and really calm, and if they can just imagine that they're taking themselves to this place and it could be an imaginary place or it could be a real place, and I just ask 'em to think about where do they go in their mind when they invite that picture in.

And then in a sophrology session, I would invite 'em to really absorb the details and really think about where they are and what's around them. Where they're feeling this lovely, lovely feeling of being safe and being calm. And I think as people are listening, they're probably thinking of somewhere or imagining themselves somewhere.[00:22:00]

And when you realize you can do that, of course I can then say to people, well, could you feel the emotions when you are there? And they say Yes. And then you say, so, do you believe that you have the power to change your emotions? And then they say. Oh yes, and there we go. That's the personal agency piece, that we are not victims to the outside world, but we have this incredible inner resource when we pay attention to be able to create the way we want to feel.

Rob D. Willis: Yeah, so cool. 'cause you, you give an an initial prompt, which is really inviting their subconscious or just them to go somewhere. It's not influenced by you at all 'cause it can't be. then you begin to help them unpick what does this mean? And I guess then lots more ideas come flooding in here.

Lindsey Frances: And the more you practice this, the more you can listen to your subconscious. And, and with my support, of course, we can really think, okay, where was that? What was happening? How did you feel? And we do [00:23:00] hundreds of exercises in Sophrology. I. Where we ask people to visualize different things from the past, the present, and the future, and it always tells us something.

It gives us clues about what's going on, and the interpretation of that is absolutely fascinating.

Rob D. Willis: Let's focus a bit on you now, 'cause I'm, I really want to unpack what, what gave you this, this, this superpower. Is there maybe a personal experience? In your own life, which highlighted that importance of mind and body connection,

Lindsey Frances: I think I would go right back to my childhood because I remember vividly at the age of six or seven being totally obsessed about why people did certain things. Who are you and who am I and why do we behave in such a way? And I remember really annoying my parents always asking, why have they done that?

Why are we doing this? Why are you doing that? Why do I have to blah, blah, blah. You can imagine. And. Looking back on that, what, what seemed like [00:24:00] a sort of annoying disquiet in my soul or an overactive imagination or a, a terribly questioning, quite annoying curiosity is actually my superpower because I am always fascinated about why has that person done that?

Where's that come from? What was their motivation? What's happening in their subconscious? Perhaps it's something they've inherited. Is it genetic? Is it conditioning? And I think that inquisitive behavior has driven me into the work that I am in now. Now, of course, I didn't start out in this career from the age of seven.

I've had a long unwinding road to get here, and one of the biggest reasons I now do what I do is because along the way, I became so sick and tired of being sick and tired. But I was barely functioning anymore. And I thought, as I said to you earlier, the solution was just work harder. And of course when you do that, you end up relying on other things to keep you going, whether it's over [00:25:00] exercising, drinking too much, eating too much using substances.

I was looking for other ways to keep myself going. 'cause I truly thought the road to success was just to work harder and it didn't end well.

Rob D. Willis: When about was that in your life? Was that, were you during work or was this in school or when was that?

Lindsey Frances: Well into my professional career. So I was running a very, very big department. I was working in business consultancy and we now call it burnout, and I think it was probably professional burnout coupled with a deep depression, and it was an unpleasant time. Rob and I didn't really see it coming, and it took an awfully long time to come back outta that and become who I am today.

Rob D. Willis: And, and the work for anybody isn't done overnight. This development piece that we need to do as the subconscious becomes much, much more powerful is [00:26:00] daily work and it's daily work for the rest of our lives.

Long hours is somewhat a, a part of the, the world of consultancy and I almost feel like it's, people wear it as a sort of badge of honor. Oh, I used to do a hundred hours a week, et cetera, et cetera. And always want to, do they achieve more or less. By doing a hundred hours a week

Lindsey Frances: Well,

Rob D. Willis: terms of actual impact.

Lindsey Frances: I think that's such a good question, Rob, because I think you know in your own heart, when you are working from intuition and not intelligence, that's where your best work comes. But in order to be in your intuition, out of your head and in your body, you need to be in the perfect circumstances.

Relaxed, calm, not overworking, not super stressed. And that's when the magic happens. That's when all of the things that you've learned in your life, all the experiences that you've got consolidate, and that's what makes you [00:27:00] wiser. And of course, as you get older, you've got more experience. But we tend to just grind out from our intelligence, from our head and think we're doing a good job and we're simply not.

Rob D. Willis: At this point in the show, I'd like to ask you a question, which. People often complain about, but I love asking it, and that is, if you were to turn this journey into a business book, the journey that you are on and helping people on, what would you call that book?

Lindsey Frances: I love this question, Rob, because it's already being written. It's taken me rather a lot longer than I thought, but the book would be called The Emotional Billionaire because of course we all go on Instagram and see the rich and famous. Some of us aspire to be in that incredible bracket. Of course, the people that are in that bracket are still looking at the people who are wealthier and richer than them.

But to be a true emotional billionaire is having access to this rich resource of [00:28:00] emotion that allows you to really live every single moment of your life. True satisfaction and joy, the good bits and the bad bits. It's the way that you navigate life. It's the way that you find satisfaction and fulfillment, and most importantly, it's the way that you engage with others, whether it's your children, your relationships, your peers, the people that work for you, or the people that you work with to bring your message to the world.

Rob D. Willis: let's move to Psalm Rapid Fire. Just a a few little tips that might help people. First one, most underrated metric for wellbeing.

Lindsey Frances: Heart rate variability.

Rob D. Willis: Most surprising insight you've gained about yourself from health data.

Lindsey Frances: Conflict of any kind. Wreck my nervous system Data.

Rob D. Willis: Most common misconception about performance and wellbeing.

Lindsey Frances: That you can grind your way to success. You simply [00:29:00] can't.

Rob D. Willis: I love it. The anti grind set.

Lindsey Frances: Yes.

Rob D. Willis: stuff. Now we come to the listener challenge, and in this stage of the pop, we give listeners an exercise or a ritual, something they can try out to get a bit of your superpower. Now, I am aware you already gave us one for the visualization, but you also hinted at another one about being present. So in the name of greed, I would love to hear that one as well.

Lindsey Frances: Well, Rob, you know, I'm absolutely on a mission to share this, so the thing I would really encourage people do is to do as a challenge, is to take five breaths using five fingers as a way of measuring your counting and watching whether or not you can concentrate on your breath for the entire five inhales and exhales.

So I'm going to challenge you now and turn the tables. We're not going to do it now, but I'd like you to do it later and let me know if we sit and breathe five times in and out in. Out and we [00:30:00] continue. Can you actually concentrate on your breathing the entire time? Or has your mind wandered off to the past or accelerated into the future in that short window?

Because concentration and attention is the only thing we have left as humans that AI can't replicate and we must must protect it.

Rob D. Willis: Awesome stuff. Lindsay, where can people go to find out more about you?

Lindsey Frances: If they want to find me on LinkedIn, I do love a chat and you can find me under Lindsay Francis. I also have my podcast Rich, simple Human, where I invite people to join in with some sophrology and some fascinating conversations. And my website, Lindsay Francis Lindsay with an e Francis in e.co uk.

Rob D. Willis: We'll link to all of that in the show notes. Thank you so much for coming on.

Lindsey Frances: Thank you, Rob.

[00:31:00] [00:32:00]