Please note : This transcript is automatically generated and provided for your convenience.

Peter McKenzie: life is a continual journey. You have to keep going

It doesn't matter whether it went well or badly, you get a point for doing it. that weight of character, who you are, are you authentic?

Do you come across with presence? Because the word presence is there as well.

Rob D. Willis: Welcome to super powered, the unique stories of modern leaders. Each week we hear from top performers about what's worked for them. So you don't have to learn everything the hard way. I'm Rob D Willis, a storytelling consultant and speaker. And today I'm talking to Peter McKenzie. AKA the C-suite coach. Peter helps executives thrive in their roles by optimizing performance, energy and time.

But today we're going to talk about executive presence, what that means and how you can get it. If you haven't done so already, please take a minute to subscribe to superpower wherever you listen to podcasts and get ready for this conversation with Peter. Mackenzie.

Hey Peter.

[00:01:00] Welcome to the show. It's cool to have you here, man.

Peter McKenzie: Thanks for having me, Rob. Great to

be here.

Rob D. Willis: I know you through the speaking community and I, I've been following your insights on leadership for a long time on LinkedIn, but for the listeners who dunno, you, could you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you

do?

Peter McKenzie: Yeah. So I'm, uh, I'm a bit like

you. So I'm,

I'm a Brit abroad.

Um, I spent 27 years in Spain,

which is coming close to half of my life.

So you can, you can do the maths on that. Um, and, uh, , uh, and here I am. I'm now living in Barcelona, uh, with my, my wife, my cat that I'm allergic to. And, um, and I have two children who are in the UK, but we're, we're, we're living here very early. Very happily.

So, um, yeah, in terms of the sort of corporate side, I guess I have two facets to what I do. So I spent most of my life in the corporate world. Uh, well, I'd say pretty much all of my life apart from when I was a teacher. So, uh, I'm now at the moment, I'm a general manager of a large real estate company in Spain, which is owned by Blackstone.

So Blackstone are the world's largest private equity firm. And I've been working in private equity for

for almost 11 years [00:02:00] now. And I had my first CFO role right back in 1999.

So I've been in the C suite for, for a long time, managing organizations, different businesses across, across, uh, across sort of Europe. Um, and now obviously based here in, in Spain. And then I have this other side, so I have this sort of dual life where I'm also an executive coach.

So I've been coaching people for about seven years. Helping people to get to their, their best level. And that's what I try and do as a coach, help people in the C suite. So I talk about, I brand myself as a C suite coach, helping people at that level to perform optimally, to thrive, and also to perform optimally in their lives, to, to have flourishing lives. That's, that's what I do.

Rob D. Willis: That's cool. I love the idea of the the double life by by day general manager by night. Executive coach. And I know that a big topic that you push a lot is executive presence. And that's really what I wanted to talk to you about today. Because it's one of those things that sounds very grand. [00:03:00] And some people might dismiss it as trying to look important.

But for you, how would you describe executive

presence?

Peter McKenzie: For me, executive presence comes down to this three pillars that I would always talk to. The first is confidence, because you can't have executive presence. You can't have a peer to have that sort of a weight in front of people unless you have confidence and self esteem.

So that is also a huge, huge topic to build up for people. But that's, that's the pillar number one. Pillar number two, which again is related, is communication. So to be able to have executive presence, you have to be able to communicate well. And of course, as you know, because you're a master storyteller and communicator, Rob, communication is also a massive, massive topic because it goes from Even starting with communicating with [00:04:00] yourself, how you talk to yourself, to how you talk one on one, how you talk to people, how you negotiate with people, how you have difficult conversations, and then of course going to speaking in public, how you speak on stage, how you speak in the boardroom, the executive room. So communication is another thing.

Rob D. Willis: hmm.

Peter McKenzie: one for me is Gravitas and Gravitas also embodies a whole series of things, but it's really how you, that weight of character, who you are, are you authentic? Do you come across with presence? Because the word presence is there as well. Are you actually there listening to that other person?

Are you in the moment or is your mind whizzing off somewhere else? So for me, they're the three pillars of what I would define as executive presence.

Rob D. Willis: confidence, communication and gravitas. And what I love about that is that there's quite a lot of wiggle room. And there are going to be people who [00:05:00] turn up in a very different way have a different blend of these things and different flavours of them. I hate to put you on the spot. But can you think of a couple of very different people who have very different types of executive presence, but nevertheless have a lot of executive

presence.

Peter McKenzie: I tell you one that comes to mind. I'm not sure that everyone. listening or to this podcast would know the guy, but it's someone I met and it's the person I always say the person that I was most impressed by as a senior leader. Um, and he's a guy called IJ Banga. So IJ Banga, for those who don't know was when I, I worked with him at Citigroup. So he was the head of our cards business, but he went on to become the CEO of Mastercard. worldwide. He's now the president of the world bank. So he's a very, very senior guy. But Ajay, when I first saw him, I first saw him on stage and I was just so impressed by the way he [00:06:00] spoke. And he spoke to the people in the room, 300, 400 of us. And somehow he came across, connected with us as though He was one of us. And how did he do that? But he was talking about anecdotes of sort of in the morning when he was turning on his PC and the windows took ages to load and how frustrating it was.

He was talking about the small things that got in the way of making us as an organization effective. But he was using this style. Which just made, I think everyone just felt what he understands us. Right. And he was also, when you then met Ajay as a person, you got the feeling he was really listening to you.

He was definitely focused on what you were saying and he expressed an interest in it. It wasn't sort of a magic trick. He wasn't doing this as a, as a, as something to impress you. He, he just seemed to be there. And so for me, he was a leader that's gone very, very far. Um, and I know from other people I've met over the years.

In MasterCard or people that have seen him speaking, they've said the same. He's one [00:07:00] person that stands out to me. So

Rob D. Willis: I'm gonna look him up. I'd love to see him speak. And obviously, as a storyteller, I'm always up for people promoting the power of story and anecdotes in building connection with your audience. I'd love to think now because I think it was Citigroup where you had your first

executive role. Yeah.

Peter McKenzie: That's

right. Yeah.

Rob D. Willis: back in 99.

Peter McKenzie: Back in 99. Imagine

Rob D. Willis: Friends was still on telly. A good time. I'm guessing you arrive in Citigroup or you become an executive. You see someone like Ajay and Maybe this is someone you look up to and you want to become more like, but where were you in building your executive presence at that time?

So let's break it down by confidence, communication, and gravitas. Where were your strengths? Where did you

need to develop more?

Peter McKenzie: I was a really good finance [00:08:00] person back then, so I, I knew everything I needed to know about what I did. My core, my core function, I had a team. Um, I was number two in the department to my, to my boss who was the CFO of the, the Spanish business of the, the bank. And then I get promoted, so my boss moves on to another role and I get the offer to be promoted to be CFO. So this is, I was thinking I was 30. 99? I'd have been 31. So quite young and I step into this role and I think, well, okay, this is, I've sort of made it. That was one of the first things, Rob, you know, got into the C suite.

This is sort of it. I've made it to the top. Fantastic. And of course I go into this new world because it's suddenly, there is definitely a gap between the C suite and the rest of the organization. I go into this new world and I suddenly realized, okay, This is very different. The people here have definitely a lot more experience than me. Um, they have a certain way of holding themselves and I'm in the leadership team and I'm the youngest [00:09:00] and I definitely felt a little bit overruled. Having said that, I knew my stuff. So I, I use one of these things that people. But I don't particularly like the expression, but you hear people use it all the time.

It's just not a fake it till you make it. So I said, okay, I'm going to just put forward this persona. I'm going to, uh, you know, just make sure I look like I'm confident. Whereas inside, I didn't feel particularly confident that I would be able to achieve this. And I, and I, I just kicked off in that, that manner.

And. Yeah, and it works, and it works. And when I was in my executive meetings, I would stick to my, my remit. I'd talk about what I knew, and I'd be pretty quiet on all the other topics that were going around the table. I wouldn't opine very much. I was the young guy. I felt the junior guy. And from there, I realized I had to make a journey.

I had to move from that spot. And this is what happens to many, many people. They make it to the C suite and they realize that's not it. You haven't finished like life is a continual journey. You have to keep going. And back then I [00:10:00] had a, um, My boss, my CEO was an Italian guy called Francesco and he was a really hard boss and it was a little bit like going into the Navy SEALs.

He, he pulled me through almost like a training process. He would challenge me. He would challenge me in public. He would question me and I had to learn how to stand on my, my two feet. And I remember the, I would normally accept the things he would say because he was the boss and he was quite imposing. And I remember the first day I actually stood up to him in our executive meeting and I said, you know, you're not right, Francesco, and he would insist and I said, no, you're not right. And I held my ground. And he was quite a stern guy, but I remember he, he smiled and he looked at me and he sort of nodded and I realized I'd passed the sort of test.

There's a Padawan in front of this Jedi. I'd passed the test. He was, he was waiting for me to push back on him.

And that was part of the journey.

So,

Rob D. Willis: Is there anything else you remember from Francesco [00:11:00] about how he helped you through this? Was it all just trying to get, pull you through? What other approaches did he, did he take to develop

a young executive?

Peter McKenzie: I mean, I think one of the things he definitely

Pushed me on was pushed all of us on was to step out of our, of our remit. Yeah, we all think we have a certain place where we know what we know and we feel comfortable, we feel confident talking to certain things, but when we go beyond that, um, it, it's a little bit scary, I suppose, to, to step out of your comfort zone. So he would push me and push others to step beyond. Where they felt comfortable surviving or living or of commenting, and that was one of the things that that I learned from him. And it's one of the things I now coach other people because executive presence, especially in the C suite to step. Beyond where you are and to build that, you have to step out of your comfort zone. And, uh, he would, he would push us to do that. And the more you do it, the easier it gets. And of course that zone expands. And each time you do it, you realize you can do it [00:12:00] again and again and again. So it's one of the things that I, uh, that I learned. And that is why I went from being a CFO of that business to becoming a CFO of a bigger business to moving into other. Corporate roles, COO, I've taken on technology, I've become a general manager. It's all been through progressing beyond what I know and stretching beyond that.

Peter McKenzie: So

those, those are the sort of things that Francesco taught

Rob D. Willis: I like that. And it's very much learn by doing. What also resonates is this idea that you've got to step out of your zone. And you're reminding me of another conversation on the podcast with Richard Russell, where he talks about who is your team. And we so often feel our team is the vertical of the organization.

It is I am in the CFO, therefore, it is finance. It's only finance, but actually your team are the horizontal. It's the other people. in that executive meeting, and they're the ones that you need to work with and support each other. Both are kind of your team, let's be honest, but [00:13:00] it's an interesting and important movement to make a realization to me.

Wondering if there a bit later on in your career as an executive trying to develop this presence, could you tell us about another challenge or blocker that you had, which you had to maybe overcome in a more strategic way, maybe just experience

didn't do the trick.

Peter McKenzie: No, no. Well, it's one that you and I both share, which is, I think of the second C, if you like, I think, I guess the first C I've just spoken to a little bit confidence. building confidence by doing, but I guess the second one was the sea of communication. Um, so I had this, this moment again, it was very early in my In my CFO career. And, uh, we were at an offsite members out in West London. It was this beautiful hotel. That was a spa, um, hotel. And we'd had this 180, 190 people sort of big rooms, a wonderful couple of days.

I'd have an absolute blast, really [00:14:00] enjoyed it. And I remember at the end of the. The offsite, the, our boss, um, the lady called Hannah Saucer, she stood up, American lady, and she began to give the closing speech at this, this offsite. Everyone's sitting there. I'm sitting in my seat thinking, well, it's been a great couple of days. And then suddenly she, she calls me out up front in front of all my peers. To give an update on a project that I'm working on in the region, which I know everything about Rob. I mean, I knew everything back to front. I could have given an update easily in front of a small team, but suddenly unexpectedly I'm brought out front to give this update as the, uh, in front of all of the people, all of my peers. So I go forward to the front of the room and I absolutely leave. Blanket. I mean, I'm just go blank. I don't know what to say. I'm staring at this sea of people. Something comes out of my mouth. I mean, I spoke for two or three minutes. I had no idea whether it made any sense or [00:15:00] not. And. And then I went back to my seat and I just felt absolutely, I just wanted to die.

I wanted to

disappear. And that was the moment I

realized again, I'd been going through this process of getting, faking it till you make it, or I'd certainly had the appearance that I could, I could give a presentation or give a short talk. But I realized I was missing something. I mean, I couldn't go through that experience again.

I couldn't be called up speak to be eloquent to give an update in front of a big group without having the skill set. So there I was strategic. I went away and I made the decision. I had to work on my communication skills. I had to somehow. Learn how to be a much better speaker, uh, a public speaker, but I think it goes through other areas of life as well. And that became one of the things that I've worked on ever since. And it's actually changed my life. I mean, it has absolutely transformed basically who I am, uh, and also how I act. And it's been, it's one of the pillars of executive presence as well.

Rob D. Willis: Obviously, I'm biased, but I [00:16:00] feel everyone should work on this. And it's the kind of thing that even if you're really good, you can still work on. There are so many different ways of doing it, though. You can read books, you can just do more of it. You can do training, you can do coaching. What do you feel was the big

game changer for you?

Peter McKenzie: Oh no, I definitely feel it was, it was doing. It was, um, it was actually practicing speaking in front of groups. Um, there was training, the two components, obviously I was trained. I was giving a lot of feedback. I joined a group called Toastmasters that you may, you may know, um, where it's an organization that's, that's very, Cheap to join and you basically get an opportunity to stand up in front of people to speak and get a lot of feedback. And also you go through a training course. So you get to touch on all of the aspects of how to become at least a competent speaker. So, um, that was where I started and then going through that process, then practicing at work. putting my hand up when there were presentations to give or to get involved in [00:17:00] standing on stages.

I did it more and more, uh, and that morphed into actually going from something that gave me quite a lot of anxiety to becoming something that I absolutely love. So I then went to actually look out how I could, uh, speak on stages, whether it be beyond my My role as a, as a sort of corporate citizen and speak as a speaker, become a speaker as well. So, uh, and as you say, you keep learning, you keep going, you keep growing. It's never, it's another journey that doesn't really end.

There's always more to learn and more skills to

add to your, to your set.

Rob D. Willis: and you can't get to the stage that you love doing it without doing it a lot. And in fact, there's a stage in between hating it and loving it, which is tolerating it. And I think people need to get to that stage first. And without doing a lot of presentations, you cannot make progress, really. It drives me insane when people come to me.

for training and I ask them, okay, when you're [00:18:00] presenting next, I have no presentations planned. How are we supposed to develop you in that particular round? So I very often will push back on people and say you find situations to present and then we can get started because otherwise you don't have the ability to to develop yourself.

It's a bit like going to a personal trainer. And then saying, Oh, I don't really go to the gym.

I don't really, don't really, do that.

Peter McKenzie: Yeah. Yeah.

Rob D. Willis: And

so yeah, you can go and learn about the anatomy and so

on, but you're not going to make any progress.

Peter McKenzie: no, absolutely. It's a skill. So it's a skill you need to, you need to develop by doing. So I agree with you completely. There's people that like to read books. There's some fantastic books on public speaking. I'm sure you've got some. I've got, I've got some. You can watch, Ted speeches, videos, but there's no substitute for actually doing it.

So I always use the analogy of tennis. Uh, you know, how can you learn to improve your forehand or your backhand just by watching videos, you have to go out there

and sort of miscue the ball a

number of times until eventually.

Rob D. Willis: You, I also like on this show to talk [00:19:00] about, other interests of my guests. So alongside public speaking, which I guess is a bit more business based. I also understand you are a keen runner. Can you tell us a little bit about your running journey? And maybe what it's

taught you about other parts of life?

Peter McKenzie: Yeah. So, um, well, running's been with me from, from quite early in life. And, uh, so the thing is, the thing is for me that I, when I was a kid, I was asthmatic. So I had very, very severe asthma and I couldn't really partake in sports. And, uh, that left me feeling a little bit sort of. Isolate us, isolated around on the side of, uh, of all those sort of sports sessions and all of my, of my, you know, the kids in my class doing all the things and I was sitting on the side. So eventually I had this, uh, I had this PE teacher, Mr. Green, never forget him. And he, one day he just pulled me aside and he said to me, you're always sitting on the side, Peter. He said, you've got two choices and you've got a choice, that's it. Or you can work at. doing something to sort of join [00:20:00] the rest of the kids.

And I was like, well, I can't, I've got asthma. And he said to me, no, we can work on that. We can work on that. And what he did, he actually got me into running to start to run distances, small distances, every time a bit longer, every time a bit longer. And each time I would get this asthma attack and it would be tremendously difficult, but I realized actually I could, I could keep going.

I could keep running and I could get, you know, go further, go further. And through running, I actually got rid of my asthma, completely disappeared. And it stayed with me ever since. So I, I then, I've been a runner. So again, so then run as I got older, so longer distances, typical 10 K races, which are always good, fun, very social.

And you, you run with other people. It's, it's a really nice sport where you're just competing with yourself. And it went on to be doing half marathons and doing some marathons. And it's just been one of the things that stayed with me ever since. And for me, Rob, it's not really that I'm like a great runner. But running has been one of these things that also works [00:21:00] as a stress reliever. It works as something that was like a meditation. You get out in the, in the rain, in the sleet, in the sun here in Spain, and it's just a way of being connected to the world. So I absolutely love it. So it's one of the things that, um, it's done me such, such good. And it's taught me so much. It's taught me so much about

mentality, you know, going through obstacles, um, as well as just being a beautiful way of resetting my, my brain.

Rob D. Willis: yeah.

I my wife, I've not done a marathon. My wife did the Berlin Marathon. And she told me about the big Her big moment was kilometer 30.

Peter McKenzie: yes.

Rob D. Willis: Have you got, is it the same for

Peter McKenzie: It's the wall.

They call it the wall.

So, uh,

yes. Kilometer 30 or 31. Uh, and I have been through that wall a couple of, a couple of times, and it's also the best, it's the moment you really think about giving up because you've still got another. 12 kilometers to go. You sort of done a fair bit, but it's a time.

I think a lot of people drop out. So, uh, Yeah.

Rob D. Willis: So when you're in that moment where you're like, I cannot do it, is do you have a mantra [00:22:00] or how do you get through it? Like what are you saying to yourself or is it

best not to say anything?

Peter McKenzie: no, I think running again, it's a, it's a beautiful image for life. When you're running a marathon, it's next step, next step, next step is one foot in front of the other. So. What I tend to do, but I think it's quite common amongst long distance runners, is you look for your next target. So obviously that next step, but that sort of keeps going.

But you look for that next tree, that next bus stop, that next whatever sign. You just look for the next thing and you set yourself mini goals within the, within the big goal that you've got.

And that's how you just keep going.

Um, and also I think most runners as well. There's one thing that I would always try and do in a race or any of these events, which is never to stop. Just one thing is to try never to stop. Obviously if you're injured or you're absolutely exhausted, people do stop, but that not stopping. [00:23:00] Just keeps you going and you just keep going until you, you hit the 42

Rob D. Willis: Yeah. Even if you are. going slowly, best to keep going. And those, that's so cool, the idea of just the next tree. I think it's, uh, I saw a clip by Andrew Huberman talking about the dopamine hit that you get when you achieve a goal. So if you finish a marathon, you get a little dopamine hits of the reward and you can create mini goals.

And as long as you're achieving them, You get that little dopamine hit, that little bit of motivation, and that powers you on to the next bit. Such a cool metaphor for everything, really, in life, actually. I've loved hearing about your, your journey. If you were to write a business book about that time, from 1999 to today, gaining executive presence, what do you think you

would call that book?

Peter McKenzie: What a question. What, what, what, what, what I was thinking you, you gave me this question up front to be

transparent, right? And, uh,

I was thinking, how long does [00:24:00] it take people to think of groups of musicians to think of their album title or, or think of a book title? It's, it's a difficult one. So I, I came up with this title, right? I said, the rockstar executive. Winning in business without losing in life. And one of the reasons is one of my keynote speeches is it's called the rock star executive or the rock star. C suite, depending who my audience is. Not because I consider myself a rock star, but I have to say that wrong up front.

It's more, what is a rock star and how do you get to become that rock star? So it's more this sort of this figure to aim at. And I think the other thing is to win, to win in your career and career, by the way, is, uh, in Spanish carrera is race. So funny enough, it's a career is a race, a little bit like a marathon, marathon sprint.

We could talk about that as well, but you can often, you see many people that try and win in their careers, in their, in their sort of corporate life, but often [00:25:00] lose in life. They lose their friends, they lose their partners, there's a loss. So it's trying to keep that balanced. You can, I think I can see that you can do both as long as you have the right strategy and that's what the rock stars do.

Rob D. Willis: Absolutely. Love that. Um, next part, I just want to make all of this more practical. And let's think about preparing someone for an executive role. So maybe you can think about yourself in 1999 and how you wish you'd prepared. So let's say someone's coming to you. They say, Peter, I've been given this job.

I'm going to become CFO. They're 31 years old, so it's a big step for them. Can you walk us through how you'd coach them in that first

session?

Peter McKenzie: Yeah. So. It's, I mean, it is a big step and I think when you join the executive sort of suite or you join, you're joining a new team. That's the first thing to, to, to mention. And, and you said it before actually, you, you mentioned the [00:26:00] fact that people get stuck with their own team. Um, and, and, but you're joining the, the most important team out is actually your lateral team, that team of executives that you join. So one of the first things I always recommend is. Get to know your team, get to know that team really well. Find what makes them tick. Find allies on that team. That's also another thing because there's also a lot of politics that goes on in these executive teams. So make sure that you find a couple of those people around that table that are going to support you very early. Um, if you make the mistake of going on your own, that, that can be, um, that can be a problem. I would say the second thing is to, Is to set expectations. So set expectations for yourself and set expectations with certainly your boss. So the other person is very important is that is the CEO. You're on that executive team.

So understand what makes her or him tick and set those expectations early because you need to make sure that there's a good balance. They're not too high, um, and that you're able to fulfill them. So that's, that's another thing I would say. Then, my next bit of advice [00:27:00] is always to listen and to observe. So, if you're moving up in your organization, you may already know the sort of the rules that are, that are set out. If you're going into a new organization, which often happens, you want to be very careful to observe the culture. and understand that there's, you don't want to be immediately giving advice or saying from where I came from here and we did this, we did that, that can really rub people up the wrong way.

So just to, just to sit, observe, listen, watch. Very important, um, early on as well. Important then to set your goals and priorities because it's the first sort of 90, 100 days is when everyone is watching you. You're being watched by your team, you're being watched by your peers. So you need to. Set some very clear goals and very clear objectives early on, um, about what you think you can do. And one of the most important things, which may be 0. 5, I think I'm on 0. 5 is to get an early win. So I'm a big believer in scoring goals. A lot of people talk [00:28:00] tactics and talk big sort of game theory, and this is what we're going to do, but there's no, there's no goals. There's no, there's no, You know, there's nothing hitting the back of the net.

I'm thinking of Kylian Mbappé this week in the football play for Madrid against Liverpool. You have to score goals. So find something you can do early on that is a, that is one up on your score sheet. Even if it's not necessarily a small, a big thing, but it has to be something that's visible to everyone else.

So again, I would say score, score quickly.

Rob D. Willis: That's great. Make allies, listen and observe, set goals and get an early win. Another thing I've noticed about executives is when you want to get feedback and get better, it's kind of hard because you're an executive and there's maybe a belief that you should already be a finished product. Where do you think executives should get that feedback from, especially in those

first 90 days?

Peter McKenzie: Yeah, no, it's a good, another good question. I mean, I think. [00:29:00] Executive. It's a, it's a, as you get hired, Rob, it's a lonelier job because you don't get that feedback. So it's, um, it is, it is tricky. I always say that looking for someone in the organization that can mentor you is, is a really, really positive step because if you can find someone that can give you that feedback, if they even in the room with you, fine.

If they're not, at least you can take it away and you can discuss that. Another thing to do is obviously what I do is to get a coach. So to get a coach, now the feedback you will get from a coach is not going to be real time. It may not be, they're not going to see you specifically in that circumstance, but you can relay how things went to a coach and you can work through the feedback, things that you could have done differently, things that you could have done better, things to try. So for me, those are two figures. Um, that are important mentoring is not quite the same as coaching,

but I would say that, um, there are two

things. The [00:30:00] third one is, as I said before, to get close to your boss, because your boss in any walk of life is one of the people that's going to most influence your well being and where you go.

So your boss, you will only get feedback. If you solicit feedback often from a CEO, they haven't got that much time, but you can early on at least be constantly trying to get that feedback, ask for it. How am I

doing? What am I doing? What, where are the

gaps? Um, you know, you can't be doing that constantly forever, but certainly those first 30, 60 days is the time to do that.

Rob D. Willis: but do you, do you think it's a good idea for your boss to be your

mentor though?

Or do you

Peter McKenzie: no, no. no. no. I think, I think your mentor has to be someone that is sitting out of your, out of your line. Um, someone, it should be someone that has. An interest in, in, in you in an organization, but it's, yes, you couldn't, couldn't be your boss. They have too much of a vested

Rob D. Willis: Yeah, it I half expected that answer. I know it's so hard to find mentors and also to create a mentor [00:31:00] relationship mentor mentee relationship that's really constructive. What do you think is really important when you create that relationship?

Peter McKenzie: I think all of these relations, again, mentoring or, or coaching the, the only work when there is complete honesty, complete transparency. So one of the things that has to be set up early on. is that sort of communication flow. There has to be a moment where you are willing, if you're going to be mentored to open up and to really be honest with the person that's mentoring you, that has to be a lot of trust. And the same with coaching, because if, if that never happens, if it becomes always about sort of theoretical, uh, here's some things you can try some tools, you can do some hacks. If that's, if that's what the coaching relationship or the mentoring becomes, um, then it won't go very far because at the end of the day the work that has to be done is always has to go deep into who you are.

It's always a sort of internal thing and therefore you have to be willing to to open up who you [00:32:00] really are.

Rob D. Willis: Awesome. I'd love to move to a couple of rapid fire questions. Don't need to think too much about this. Don't need to go into too much depth. Last

great book you read.

Peter McKenzie: Last great book I read. For me, it was, it's a business book. Um, so it's, it's called, I'm

trying to remember if it's a thousand, thousand leads or 10, 000 leads by

Alex Ormosi. Yes.

For me, for someone coming outside of, uh, not really being in marketing and sales, I found

that a fascinating book.

It was a

great book.

God,

Rob D. Willis: that has caught your attention recently,

and not this one.

Peter McKenzie: you've stolen my, uh, so podcast that's caught my attention recently. Um, it would be. For me, I'm just trying to think of the name of it now. Um, oh, it's the guy who's off the Dragon's Den, Steve Bartlett's

Rob D. Willis: Steve Bartlett

diaries of his diaries of a

Peter McKenzie: CEO,

that's the one. Yeah, so I hadn't come across that before, um, but it seems to be running for a while. And, uh, [00:33:00] yes, I love his style and I love the fact it's, it's not about CEOs at all, is it? He covers, he covers such a wide variety of topics on his podcast.

So that, that was one

that I've stumbled across and enjoyed.

Rob D. Willis: Uh, have you got a habit you do in

the morning when you wake up?

Peter McKenzie: Okay, so I've got a, I spoke about running earlier, and I've got a, I've got a hernia now in my back, so my habit these days is doing a bit of physio, uh, physio. But yes, I do, I do have a, two, two really. Bizarre habits at the moment. So one is I drink a glass of water. That's one of the things I do. I, I put a glass of water by my bed in the at night and every morning I drink that glass of water.

I don't drink it in the night, I drink it first thing. So I get sort of, I know a nice bit of, uh, hydration. And the other thing I do these days is I've gotta pull up bar. in my, um, in my house, which

has been a clothes hanger really for many years, never really been used. So for the last, uh, for the last few months, I've been doing pull ups and I'm now up to eight pull ups.

So I guess that's not bad for a 50 something user. So,

Rob D. Willis: That's great. I have to admit this year has been the first time I've been able to do pull ups. It's been a bit of a journey, but I can do a few as well. [00:34:00] Favorite way to decompress after a

big meeting.

Peter McKenzie: or I go for a walk after a big meeting. I was going to say, if it was a big day, I would, I would go for a run running is my way. But if it's a big meeting, I get outside as much as I can these days. Uh, I would just go for a walk. And we, somebody, even a walk around our car park. We have a, we're not in a fantastic place where I work these days, but just a walk outside just decompresses me.

Rob D. Willis: That's such a great tip.

Last, last one. A favorite story. So basically a non instructive book, film, documentary can be a biography. favorite one, the one that had a profound impact on you, and particularly the way that you lead.

Peter McKenzie: Favorite, favorite film. So I, I mean, I, I go, I mean, films, uh, there are, there are, there are a number of films that I really enjoy. I'm not sure they've, they've packed on the way I lead. You make me cry now Rob with these questions. Um, I particularly like. And it sounds a bit naff as well. The first couple of Batman films, the Christopher Nolan, I'm a bit of a fan of Christopher Nolan as a

director,. And I, I think there are, there are scenes in [00:35:00] those Batman films. that I suppose when it comes to sort of the psychology of struggle, uh,

that come to mind. And I don't know if I've ever connected them to my leadership, uh, journey, but there's a certain company in fact, one of the famous ones is in the third film, which isn't my favorite when, when, if you remember, Bruce Wade is trying to escape from the pit of the, he's been chucked in this pit by the, uh, the evil criminal, I can't remember his name, Bane, I think it was called. And, uh, he has to escape. And every time he tries to escape from this, this pit, he's climbing the walls. No one's ever escaped apparently, one person's escaped. He climbs these walls and he tries to, he has this rope on him and the rope is stops him if he falls, basically stops him. dying and in the, in the bottom of this pit.

And he, he tries this, he tries to escape on a number of occasions and he keeps falling and he keeps like getting re injured. The only way he finally escapes is to leave the rope. There's some wise old man says, you know, you just have to leave the rope and go [00:36:00] without the rope. That's the way, because that's the only way you're going to convince yourself you have to make this leap and to get out. So I suppose there's quite a nice parallel in, in that story that he, uh, he, he makes the leap by not having this sort of safety there. And I think that that's. There's a story there for all of us because we, we tend to like to

have always a safety net

and that stops us making that leap because we're always thinking we need to have this too much safety to, to jump to the next, uh, the next level.

So I

just made it up on the spot, but there you are.

Rob D. Willis: know.

Peter McKenzie: That's inspired me. Because I, when I made the movement, moved to working full time and storytelling, training and so on. My safety net, my rope was yanked away from

Rob D. Willis: me because I, my safety net was a pretty much

guaranteed okay income from tours, from tourism. And then at the beginning of 2020 that was gone.

So suddenly I had, I've got X amount of money that will last me Y number of months. How am I going to do this? [00:37:00] Necessity is often a very good indicator. I'm not going to say that everyone should leave their jobs but I do feel that sometimes being forced to make a living off something means you find some way, even if it's not

precisely what you imagined before.

Peter McKenzie: Did you find Rob just on that? Did you find that that accelerated everything you needed to do to sort of take this new career forward? Did you find that that really pushed you? Not having

that? So you just see, yeah,

Rob D. Willis: Absolutely. There was no other way to do it. And we in Germany, freelancers are not looked after that well, by the authorities, let's put it's a bit of a sore, sore topic this. But if you if I'd been in a normal job, I would have got 80 percent salary in as long as there wasn't work coming in.

But as a freelancer, there wasn't any of that support. So I had to somehow make this work. And turn my life around basically and find something new. And I'm obviously not glad that that [00:38:00] happened. The disaster happened. But for me, it was the push I needed to begin building something I really loved. Yeah,

Peter McKenzie: the having that sort of comfort blanket, it's almost deadly. I mean, they, they cook sometimes you have this golden chain and maybe it wasn't so golden for you, but it was certainly enough for me to hold you back. So, yeah, you, you, you were Bruce Wade. You were Batman.

Rob D. Willis: It was Bruce Wayne.

Let's, uh, let's move on to the listener challenge. So in this part of the show, we give listeners an exercise or a ritual that they can try out for the next week to get a little bit of your superpowers.

Have you got something for us, Peter?

Peter McKenzie: sort of conversation here about executive presence. Uh, I've got a couple of things. I've got a couple of things that I, I, you know, tried to test people on that I coach. Um, and I guess this, this, Not two types of people don't wanna be too [00:39:00] generalist, but for the extroverts amongst us, those that sort of have this level of energy and they're anxious and of moving, and a little bit like myself most, most days, that I tend to be always running around and quite, quite energetic. One of the things that without a. will improve your executive presence is just to slow down, is to slow down in all aspects of what you do. So how you walk, how you move, just to take things down 25%, 30%, how you talk, slowing down your delivery, being more concise, pausing. So all of those things will just add to that image of control. And in fact, it will actually calm you down as well. And you'll feel yourself having more impact. So that's, that's one thing I would highly recommend to people that feel or they've been told they don't have enough executive presence is just to [00:40:00] slow down. That's one for those on the other side of the spectrum where maybe they're a little bit, they are slowed down. They're keeping in the shadows. They're not stepping forward. I play a game, a game with some of the, some of my, my co cheese, which is, not to be overly overthinking the results of your actions. So I played this game where you just think putting points on the board, a little bit like I said before about scoring goals. So stepping out of your comfort zone every day, every day, at least once finding something that you feel uncomfortable doing and you get points from just for doing it. So if you were to say, listen, I mean, I'm in a meeting with my team. with my executive team. And most people stay seated in the meeting when they give their update.

Everyone, everyone does the same. Stand up, go to the front of the room, draw something on the [00:41:00] flip chart. Now, for most people that can be no, you know, cause you're breaking from the rest of the norm. You're breaking from the team. You may have your heart beating. You may go and do that. It may be useless, whatever you draw, it may look horrible.

It may not have much, but you get the point for making that move. So it's

looking for things where you can be

courageous, a little bit of courage every day, try something every day. And as I say, you don't get the point for the result. It doesn't matter whether it went well or badly, you get a point for doing it.

And that over time will mean you do things differently to the rest of the people in your executive suite and you build. That reputation for having a presence over time will build and accumulate and, and take you forward. So two

tips for one for you Rob.

Rob D. Willis: I love that. Thank you. Peter, where

can people go to find out more about you?

Peter McKenzie: Okay. So you can find me at my website, which is peter mackenzie.com. I'm an MCK Mackenzie, so peter mackenzie.com. And uh, my social media, I do almost everything on LinkedIn so you can find me on LinkedIn as well. [00:42:00] Be very happy to connect.

Rob D. Willis: We'll link to you in the

show notes, of course. Peter. Thanks very much.

Peter McKenzie: Rob, thank you for having

me.

Rob D. Willis: That was Peter McKenzie, sharing his insights on developing genuine executive presence. And the power of continuous growth. I loved his little exercise at the end. Lots of small acts of courage to keep growing. I think that's something that we should all be doing actually. If you've enjoyed the show today, please be sure to drop a review. Wherever you listen to podcasts.

And if you know someone who's about to enter a senior role for the first time. Send them this episode, I reckon that pizza's perspective could be exactly what they need. I'm Rob de Willis storytelling, consultant, and speaker. And I will see you next week for another episode of superpowered

the unique stories of modern leaders.